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Dreadnaught HQ
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Old 12 Jul 2005, 16:07   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Dreadnaught HQ

Dreadnaughts are the remains of dead marines/chaos marines of exceptional fighting calibre.* Presumably this includes the deciest HQ.* To represent these dead commanders/Lords I propose dreadnaught casing being a possible upgrade for HQ (probably more logical in chaos, as chaos lords tend to think less than SM commanders):

Universal
40 pts

1. Dreadnaught armour values replace toughness, and strength becomes 6 (as a normal dreadnaught)(all other stats remain the same as the originall character)

2. Dreadnaught options become available (changing weaponry etc.)

3. 1 handed cc weapons from the armoury: attatch under the big gun, does not rplace anything.

4. 2 handed cc weapons from the armoury: replace dreadnaught cc weapon for -10 points to the weapons cost.

5. May choose any vehicle upgrades, same as a normal dreadnaught.

6. May choose any other wargear to the maximum limit for the character (any guns taken, if heavy, replace first the dreadnaught cc weapon, then (if more than 1 is taken) the originall dreadnaugh heavy weapon)(any assault or rapidfire guns taken replace the bolter in the cc weapon arm (only one may be taken).

7. any invunerable saves from wargear can be taken to save from crew shaken/crew stunned.

Space Marine
i dont play these, and dont have access to a codex, so post what you think makes sense for them below

Chaos Space Marines

8. the HQ is now affected by blood fire frenzy and blood rage.

9. May not take daemonic gifts bar essence and rune, may not take juggernaught of khorne, Talisman of the burning blood, blight grenades, combat drugs, steed of slaanesh, eye of tzeentch, thrall wizards, disc of tzeentch, Talisman of tzeentch.* He may not use these as they would not have any affect, affecting his body which is by now too mechanised to matter, or the sensitive part of his mind which is now dead.

10. He may not take marks as a lord, but only as a dreadnaught (e.g. gets a destroyer, not +1 attacks, etc. if marked by khorne)
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Old 12 Jul 2005, 20:10   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dreadnaught HQ

I am not great on finding points costs for things, but the idea of this is definately a very good one!

The only thing that could possibly need working I guess is all of the upgrades available to chaos Lords. To be honest I think you should just exclude all Daemonic gifts, because things like daemonic mutation will bear no effect once the Lord has been encased inside the dreadnought, you get me?

Some items from the armouries of the God's could still be taken (although not many), and I support your idea about the marks - the only ones can be those which deicate a vehicle to a particular God, and they are not mandatory either.

Good idea, possibly play test it first to gauge how well it works/too powerful? not powerful enough for its points etc.?

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Old 12 Jul 2005, 21:08   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dreadnaught HQ

I think your idea's a little void...

If you want Dreadnought HQs, just allow people to take their 0-1 Venerable Dreadnought as a HQ like the Space Wolves do.

Chaos Dreadnoughts can't be leaders. The pilots are frothing, writhing, agony-stricken madmen who would sooner slaughter their own troops than lead them.
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Old 12 Jul 2005, 21:34   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dreadnaught HQ

Well many are.

But there are some Chaos commander Dreadnoughts. Although the one I know of is from a post heresy renegade chapter.

Chaos as with most things have their variations, I can't in all honesty see a Khorne Dread having much sense, but ones that are under the influence of Slaanesh, Tzeentch, undecided etc I think its reasonable to assume.

I'm argueing this because the leader of my Violators is Dread mounted* :P, plus its based off a GW novel.

Still, as Wargamer has said, just do it that way. It makes very little sense to give them a T value and things like that.
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Old 13 Jul 2005, 06:41   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dreadnaught HQ

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Originally Posted by Arguleon-veq
Still, as Wargamer has said, just do it that way. It makes very little sense to give them a T value and things like that.
thats what i said, replace the toughness value with the armour values. these rules just make the dreadnaught more upgradeable, with +1 WS, BS and initiative and 3 wounds (i believe that can be done with VDR but i'm not sure, so: )

a vehicle immobilised rule or a weapon destroyed result removes a wound but is ignored (or can be taken accepted if there is only 1 wound left), a vehicle destroyed takes 2 wounds but is ignored, and vehicle explodes or is annialated kills outright, unless daemonic rune is taken, when it only takes 2 and either the effect of weapon destroyed or immobalised.
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Old 13 Jul 2005, 11:38   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dreadnaught HQ

Ah, fair enough.

Still I think its overly complex and not needed. There are already rules for HQ Dreads (Space Wolves), so theres no point in giving every other army different rules for it.

You could just upgrade the existing rules a little, adapt some wargear to work on a Dread for example.
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Old 13 Jul 2005, 12:38   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dreadnaught HQ

the idea in itself isn't a bad one it's just...well it's all very fiddly all this wounds business for example.

Why not just keep the commanders WS, I and BS the just use the venerable and deamonic possession rules (regardless of the dread being SM or CSM) that way they will shrug offshaken and stunned as is befitting of the over the top dedication and heroics of the average commander, and venerable has the potential to work like an armour save (possibly downgrade results and not have your leader killed by glancing).
Up the points as 40pts is low for what you get and allow any vehicle upgrades. Other weapons are pointless exept maybe chainfists (+1D6 for penetration)
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Old 13 Jul 2005, 15:36   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dreadnaught HQ

i agree in general (points cost i wasnt sure of, so an actuall suggestion would greatly help), but daemon weapons for example could be good to take... and master crafting would be good.

where are the rules for venerable, BTW?
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Old 13 Jul 2005, 15:38   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dreadnaught HQ

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Originally Posted by Tauroc
where are the rules for venerable, BTW?
You should know by now we can't give you official rules. Go buy the Codex.
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Old 13 Jul 2005, 15:41   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dreadnaught HQ

firstly i sed where, not what, and therefore: which codex? space marine?
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