[leatherback]

Any vehicle can choose to purchase a Manta vehicle drop at +30 points per vehicle. If one member of a vehicle squadron purchase a drop, all must. If they buy this upgrade, they gain deepstrike. As they are being dropped from great heights, they may not fire their weapons or unload any passengers. However, any model firing at the deepstriking vehicle does so as if they are firing at a Flyer as per Imperial Armor.

If the vehicle is a dedicated transport, its team must deepstrike inside the vehicle. If a squadron of vehicles deepstrikes, place one, roll for scatter (2D6, taking the lower of the two numbers), and place the others within unit coherency around it.

For an additional 20 points, they may deepstrike with a gun drone team (each model being bought as per the Tau codex, with the same size restrictions, point cost, etc. They do not count as a Fast Attack choice). If they do so, the Gun Drones are placed within 2" of the deepstriking vehicle and grant it an invulnerable save*, but only on the turn it comes in. Any model firing at the Drones on the turn they come in does so as if they are firing at a Flyer as per Imperial Armor. This upgrade may not be bought with vehicles in a squadron. In the turn after the vehicle deepstrikes, the gun drones become their own unit.

*The invulnerable save is equal to 7 - the number of drones left in the team, the best possible save being a 2+. If the invulnerable save is made, a gun drone must be removed as a casualty. If no gun drones are left, the invulnerable save is removed.


A model taking a Manta vehicle drop (and the gun drones accompanying it if their are any) may choose to either enter through reserves as normal (the gun drones and vehicle counting as a single reserves roll), or automatically come in on the first turn.

C&C welcome.

[hardcore]

Originally Posted by leatherback

Any vehicle can choose to purchase a Manta vehicle drop at +30 points per vehicle. If one member of a vehicle squadron purchase a drop, all must. If they buy this upgrade, they gain deepstrike.

this is good, really good, I like this rule/upgrade

Originally Posted by leatherback

As they are being dropped from great heights, they may not fire their weapons or unload any passengers.

Do you know what a manta is? (I am staring at IA3 page 208 while asking this)

the great thing about mantas is that they don't drop things at great heights, the drop them at just above skimmer level. if you were to drop a skimmer out the back of a manta it would just drop until drag and anti gravity fields forced it to stop, before hitting the ground. they would still be able to move (in fact they would be able to move farther if desired) in what ever direction chosen, and unload and function (shoot)

Originally Posted by leatherback

However, any model firing at the deepstriking vehicle does so as if they are firing at a Flyer as per Imperial Armor.

way to add some realism to the equation, the vehicles would be moving fast, but would be vulnerable. by giving the opponent the chance to shoot at the vehicles has they come in you are making things real. but you would need to make this a universal special susceptibility rule, so that IG drop troops and other air deep striking units suffer equally. (this brings up a valid point that I have not had time to express before) I think that GW needs to make a distinction of advantages and disadvantages between the different types of deep strikes. For instance I have seen IG that "parachute" and undead (nicely painted) that would be considered tunneling. I have never heard of marines tunneling.

Originally Posted by leatherback

If the vehicle is a dedicated transport, its team must deepstrike inside the vehicle.

fair

Originally Posted by leatherback

If a squadron of vehicles deepstrikes, place one, roll for scatter, and place the others within unit coherency around it.

The great thing about a manta drop (if you get a chance look at Imperial Armour Apocalypse, not worth buying but worth reading, look at the Manta Death Blow Cadre formation) is no divination, they just land where you want them. this seems very unTau like to me, as they are a precision race.

Originally Posted by leatherback

For an additional 20 points, they may deepstrike with a gun drone team (each model being bought as per the Tau codex, with the same size restrictions, point cost, etc. They do not count as a Fast Attack choice). If they do so, the Gun Drones are placed within 2" of the deepstriking vehicle and grant it an invulnerable save*, but only on the turn it comes in. Any model firing at the Drones on the turn they come in does so as if they are firing at a Flyer as per Imperial Armor. This upgrade may not be bought with vehicles in a squadron.

*The invulnerable save is equal to 7 - the number of drones left in the team, the best possible save being a 2+. If the invulnerable save is made, a gun drone must be removed as a casualty. If no gun drones are left, the invulnerable save is removed.

cool custom addition, but not practical as the gun drones cost additional point each and come in squads of 4-8 you have essentially added an 48-96 point squad that for 20 more point gives an invulnerable save, unless the opponent wants to just shoot at the vehicles, and roll sixes to hit. you are heading down a new track, I applaud you, but you need to think this one through a bit more, especially how it works. keep asking yourself "would I actually buy this in many of my games" and "is this a worth while cost" much of Tau wargear is expensive, but at what point does it become too expensive?

Originally Posted by leatherback

A model taking a Manta vehicle drop (and the gun drones accompanying it if their are any) may choose to either enter through reserves as normal (the gun drones and vehicle counting as a single reserves roll), or automatically come in on the first turn.

Yes! you have that one right! being able to choose when to come in is worth a lot!
I hope this helps you out a little bit, and if you don't own IA3 I encourage you to get it, it is well worth the cost, and is far better then your codex

[leatherback]

I hope this helps you out a little bit, and if you don't own IA3 I encourage you to get it, it is well worth the cost, and is far better then your codex

I actually do have IA:3 and may have to get IA:A as the biggest reason I got IA:3, was to get the official rules for the Remora (which isn't included in the book it seems).

As to your mentioning of how a Manta goes down to skimmer level to unload troops, this is true. However, if a battlefield is too dangerous to land the Manta, the vehicles would be capable of unloading mid-flight, much akin to the Orca dropping run (I forget the name, but its the deploying along the flight path ability). Perhaps having the deepstriking 2D6 (taking the lower value) would be more accurate.

Also, as the vehicle being dropped is most likely using their thrusters for lift/slowing it down rather than maneuvering, some scatter should occur.

I forgot to write something into the original post (I will edit it in). That would be that once the gun drones have deepstriked with the vehicle, they form a separate unit. The idea wasn't so much that the gun drones themselves were an upgrade, but that they had been tasked with protecting the vehicle.

Thanks for the suggestions.

[hardcore]

Originally Posted by leatherback

I actually do have IA:3 and may have to get IA:A as the biggest reason I got IA:3, was to get the official rules for the Remora (which isn't included in the book it seems).

Just make sure that you know that IA:A is pretty much worthless except for the formations that were added and the vehicles that are otherwise not included (like the Remora) in a volume you own. it is the one and only book that I would have to encourage GW to give away, because it is not a volume to be proud of.

Originally Posted by leatherback

As to your mentioning of how a Manta goes down to skimmer level to unload troops, this is true. However, if a battlefield is too dangerous to land the Manta, the vehicles would be capable of unloading mid-flight, much akin to the Orca dropping run (I forget the name, but its the deploying along the flight path ability). Perhaps having the deepstriking 2D6 (taking the lower value) would be more accurate.

Also, as the vehicle being dropped is most likely using their thrusters for lift/slowing it down rather than maneuvering, some scatter should occur.

Well I am glad to see that you are following basic physics and using logic in designing your rules! I have to yield you a great point that Mantas make great targets (hence the roll normal BS rule) and might not want to be bullet magnets all of the time, even with their 50% save and 10 structure points. What if you treated them like formations of troops: place one vehicle, roll scatter and then place all other vehicles
within 6in. of the first vehicle? the thin I am worried about is a vehicle scattering off the table (easier to do given their size) or two vehicles landing on top of each other (and crashing) Tau pilots are not dumb. Perhaps since they are coming out of the Manta you could do less drop vehicle BS(4)

or add skilled pilots rules for +10 (ish) points that increase vehicle movement and decrease scatter or engine damage or something (like overdrives on blood angles, or machine spirit, etc.) be creative, Tau are rather good at R and D and after fighting a few battles would begin to develop technologies to combat specific things that certain groups have.

Originally Posted by leatherback

I forgot to write something into the original post (I will edit it in). That would be that once the gun drones have deepstriked with the vehicle, they form a separate unit. The idea wasn't so much that the gun drones themselves were an upgrade, but that they had been tasked with protecting the vehicle.

Thanks for the suggestions.

I am still not a big fan of gun drones right now but given the new planetstrike force organization charts (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5th9n...e=channel_page) 46seconds into video I would be willing to take them. as I said earlier, the gundron option is great, but there are a lot of other things that I would do with 100 points before taking them. in a 3000+ game they are a great option that is worth considering, but at that level you may not be faced with force organization chart limits anymore.

Keep working, thinking and testing. When you have it roughly perfected post it in its final version. I can't wait to use this, great Idea!

[leatherback]

What if you treated them like formations of troops: place one vehicle, roll scatter and then place all other vehicles
within 6in. of the first vehicle? the thin I am worried about is a vehicle scattering off the table (easier to do given their size) or two vehicles landing on top of each other (and crashing) Tau pilots are not dumb. Perhaps since they are coming out of the Manta you could do less drop vehicle BS(4)

Already did it

If the vehicle is a dedicated transport, its team must deepstrike inside the vehicle. If a squadron of vehicles deepstrikes, place one, roll for scatter (2D6, taking the lower of the two numbers), and place the others within unit coherency around it.

I am thinking that the gun drone idea isn't the best. Perhaps allowing to deepstrike with a vehicular Stealth Field Generator drone* for +30 points.

*Same stats as a heavy gun drone, IC, and any friendly unit or vehicle within 6" gains the benefits of a stealth field generator.

Just make sure that you know that IA:A is pretty much worthless except for the formations that were added and the vehicles that are otherwise not included (like the Remora) in a volume you own. it is the one and only book that I would have to encourage GW to give away, because it is not a volume to be proud of.

Hmm, do you know if the PDF rules for the Remora found on the FW site are the same as the apocalypse one? If so, it probably isn't worth buying it.