Tau Empire Codex 2013 | Army Builder Program
Dark Angels Codex 2013
Chaos Daemons Codex 2013
Chaos Space Marines Codex 2012

Warhammer 40k Forum Tau Online

 

Warhammer 40K Forum

Theory for army building
Closed Thread
Old 11 Aug 2005, 04:11   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 169
Default Theory for army building

Hey guys (and Im sure there are a few girls out there aswel),

I have been getting annoyed for a while at my friends constantly adjusting their army lists to fight my self and each other. So I had a hard think about some general rules I follow to make a balanaced list so here they are.

Note: I am not sure whether anyone else has thought of these so feel free to condemn me to the EOT if it has been done already

When building your list you need to have a view of what the whole army is going to contain at the end, then find a starting point.

1 - For every 1000 pts in your army you should have 1 HQ choice
2 - For every 500pts in your army you should have 1 TROOP choice maximised
3 - For every 750 Pts in your Army you should have 1 ELITE choice
4 - For every 750 pts in your army you should have 1 HEAVY support choice
5 - For every 1000pts in your army you should have 1 FAST Attack choice

I think this way you can develope balanced armies no matter what force you have.

What do you think?
__________________
One death is a tragedy, one million deaths is a statistic
Kesalin is offline  
Old 11 Aug 2005, 04:25   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,260
Default Re: Theory for army building

I disagree completely. I think the specifics of the units you play dictate what is in your army, like if I had a lot of stealth suits I would assume I have light armor/weenie crowd controll covered and I could skimp on firewarriors in favor of weapons that can do what the burst cannons cannot.

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Edwin
Also note I have 6 lord level HQ's leading 10 scouts.
Join the arena, and succumb to the eternal lust!
http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=9054.0
ShadowDeth is offline  
Old 11 Aug 2005, 04:33   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 871
Default Re: Theory for army building

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kesalin

I have been getting annoyed for a while at my friends constantly adjusting their army lists to fight my self and each other. So I had a hard think about some general rules I follow to make a balanaced list so here they are.

What do you think?
I think we should all go play 40K and laugh and have fun and not worry about what other people take in their armies.

Or, if you need something a little more authoritative, try page 170 of the rulebook:
Quote:
Pick what appeals to you, not what you think that you should choose.
__________________
Man, that's the joy of Anime! To revel in the complete and utter wastefullness of making an unstoppable nuclear-powered combat andriod in the shape of a cute little girl, who has the ability to fall in love and wears an enormous bow in her hair.



Don't tell me that you fell for the MTV lie?
The MTV lie is that people who rebel against tradition are thnking for themselves, while those who follow tradition are just sheep who do not think.
It is, of course, completely untrue. The decision to follow tradition is just as much an exercize of free will as is the decision to depart from it.
Doctor Thunder is offline  
Old 11 Aug 2005, 05:11   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Sandy Eggo
Posts: 1,954
Default Re: Theory for army building

> (maliciousness warning)


for no real reason, and not to be truly mean, i throw your argument and solution back at you..... please dont take offense, im trying to open your eyes to my point is all:

you say that youd like to play against more balanced armies, because the armies you face seem designed to slaughter you.... that means to me that your army isnt balanced, and these unfair abuses are in fact of your own creation. while surely their armies are built to spec to outdo yours, and ya this SEEMS unfair, your army needs to be versatile enough to not be so easilly undone.

there thats all my confrontationalism-eyness (whew! is that a word??) to be more helpfull, i could direct you to any topic in this forum with the magic word in it: Powergaming (that would be your search keyword). im personally of the point of view that i have say a Space Marine opponent whos a regular challenger for my army, and i have a List just for him. and he has his List for me. he tries his best to undo me, i do the same to him. i improve my list he improves his list. its an arms race. neither of us should pull away from the other (this is the BIG test of a play Balanced game, btw)

this helps out each of our games, but not in a BIG picture sense.... his army would be a very good 'Anti Calaban's Tau' army, but may get slaughtered by another Tau army. or an Ork Army.Or a Rogue Trader Tournament Army.. you get the idea.

;D so, eyes open? hope i helped.
__________________
Though I walk through the valley of the swarms of the clueless, I shall fear no idiocy, for the M-STAR flagged them 12 seconds ago, and the JDAMS are already freefalling.
Calaban is offline  
Old 11 Aug 2005, 06:24   #5 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sydney Aus
Posts: 7,853
Send a message via MSN to crazedmongoose2003
Default Re: Theory for army building

I'm going to have to beg to differ with that format. Max-min troops might not fit the play style of some people, some might opt for less elites, some more fast attacks. To me what really becomes beardy is when an army is composed in such a way that you know according to the fluff it will never happen. Such as when one character costs around 2/3 of the army. But those types of lists are USUALLY easily beaten (with the exception of a few really godless ones, like that Ulthwe list with 6 wraithlords).
__________________
Holding a Tau Online Vassal League, click here for more info:

http://forums.tauonline.org/index.ph...c,86474.0.html
crazedmongoose2003 is offline  
Old 11 Aug 2005, 06:26   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,260
Default Re: Theory for army building

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazedmongoose2003
I'm going to have to beg to differ with that format. Max-min troops might not fit the play style of some people, some might opt for less elites, some more fast attacks. To me what really becomes beardy is when an army is composed in such a way that you know according to the fluff it will never happen. Such as when one character costs around 2/3 of the army. But those types of lists are USUALLY easily beaten (with the exception of a few really godless ones, like that Ulthwe list with 6 wraithlords).
Can Ulthwe take 3 harlequin allied choices? I thought it was restricted to *1* total choice.

Besides, all you have to do is say "No" and they can't field their Harlequin Wraithlord Abominations.

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Edwin
Also note I have 6 lord level HQ's leading 10 scouts.
Join the arena, and succumb to the eternal lust!
http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=9054.0
ShadowDeth is offline  
Old 11 Aug 2005, 21:16   #7 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Hamilton, New Zealand
Posts: 4,656
Send a message via MSN to Hunter
Default Re: Theory for army building

My personal golden rule:
Customise your army to fight your oponent to the same degree as your opponent has customised his to fight yours.
__________________
Do it for KJ


Hunter is offline  
Old 12 Aug 2005, 00:11   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 169
Default Re: Theory for army building

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaban
* >* *(maliciousness warning)
Thank you for the warning. I appreciate how honest and condescending you are in your feedback. So given how assuming you are with your replies I'm sure you wont mind my rebutle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaban
for no real reason, and not to be truly mean, i throw your argument and solution back at you..... please dont take offense, im trying to open your eyes to my point is all:
If you have no real reason, then dont post it. In any case, it was never an argument just my thoughts which you have inturn interpreted as an argument and I do take offense. By asking someone not to take offence is just an excuse to justify to yourself why your being offensive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaban
you say that youd like to play against more balanced armies, because the armies you face seem designed to slaughter you.... that means to me that your army isnt balanced, and these unfair abuses are in fact of your own creation. while surely their armies are built to spec to outdo yours, and ya this SEEMS unfair, your army needs to be versatile enough to not be so easilly undone.
I never actually said that. Please read myy post before assuming too much. But to clarify for you - I have a balanced army which is designed to desl with any situation from any force. As stated in my post, my annoyance comes from friends designing specific list for every time we do battle. This type of behaviour prompts people into thinking that you dont need tactics to win, just a kick ass list.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaban
there thats all my confrontationalism-eyness (whew! is that a word??) to be more helpfull, i could direct you to any topic in this forum with the magic word in it: Powergaming (that would be your search keyword). im personally of the point of view that i have say a Space Marine opponent whos a regular challenger for my army, and i have a List just for him. and he has his List for me. he tries his best to undo me, i do the same to him. i improve my list he improves his list. its an arms race. neither of us should pull away from the other (this is the BIG test of a play Balanced game, btw)
No it is not a word. I'm not sure how creating the list is the big test I would think perfecting the usage of said list is the BIG test.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaban
this helps out each of our games, but not in a BIG picture sense.... his army would be a very good 'Anti Calaban's Tau' army, but may get slaughtered by another Tau army. or an Ork Army.Or a Rogue Trader Tournament Army.. you get the idea.
Actually no. I dont get the Idea. Why would you design a list purely to figt one persons army. Surely by doing this you are limiting the ability of your force and your own ability of facing other people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaban
;D* so, eyes open? hope i helped.
No you couldn't help me with feed back as arrogant, self indulgent, condecending and just plain rude. Thanks anyway.
__________________
One death is a tragedy, one million deaths is a statistic
Kesalin is offline  
Old 12 Aug 2005, 04:48   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 198
Default Re: Theory for army building

How about

40-60% troops Closer to 50% being ideal
12.5% as ideal for Hq, Fast attack, heavy support and Elite but varience to 25% being tolerated so long as none of the other choices are neglected for instance Heavy support 25% fast attack 4% elite 3% Hq 5%.

No repeat non-troop choices.
No repeat weapons upgrade/choices for troops.

Trick is offline  
Old 12 Aug 2005, 05:20   #10 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 350
Default Re: Theory for army building

Kesalin, chill the freak out.

Calaban was fairly friendly and good-natured throughout the entirity of his post. He made the disclaimer to point out that he meant no offense, prepared you for a contradictiction, and to say that even if he was correct, there's nothing to be ashamed of.

"By asking someone not to take offence is just an excuse to justify to yourself why your being offensive."

If you believe sincere intention has no influence on social interaction, you may as well be a disconnected robot. If you believe people deserve to be flamed for introducing ideas into your thread other than the ones you expected to hear, don't post.

Right, I've said my 2-cents. I bear no grudge against ya. I just don't like seeing people go off on eachother over such petty things. Calaban and others bring up a very good point: Such army building structure prevents the creation of theme armies. A Craftworld Saim-Hann army couldn't exist within those guidelines.

Here's what I'd suggest as a solution:

Give people no more than 5-10 minutes to tweak army lists before games begin. That way, you ensure that people aren't tailoring their lists before a game starts, and you get more play-time out of it. If someone wants to have a library of army lists, that's their perogative. It still keeps the army-building out of a gaming-day, and makes it a lot more productive, and table-top focused. What do you think?
Yawgmoth1111 is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My army needs building Space marines rule Space Marines 3 05 Feb 2010 03:09
HELP!!! Building an army w/ WH and IG kronas The Inquisition 2 04 Sep 2007 13:19
Help in building an army... TTKoshi Tau Army Lists 2 17 Jul 2007 21:28
Building Tau army trigget Hobby 1 28 Jul 2006 09:10
Interesting Analysis' on the Theory of Evolution and the Big Bang Theory Tau Tau Enclave Talk 6 08 Apr 2005 02:02