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How closely should players stick to fluff?
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Old 29 Jul 2005, 02:18   #11 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: How closely should players stick to fluff?

We should be careful to differentiate that there are two completely different kinds of fluff we are talking about here:

The first is DIY fluff, for armies that you have invented yourself. This is the best kind, because you can suit the fluff to your playstyle, and, best of all, no one can tell you whether or not you adhere to the fluff, because, hey, it's YOUR fluff. You cna even change it over time if you wish to.

The second kind of fluff is when you collect one of GW's established armies, like Dark Angels or Alatioc. This is where you run into problems, because different players interpret the fluff differently, which can lead to some of the biggest buzz-kills in all of 40K, the "That army would not include that," arguments. Gamers are almost never content with keeping their opinion to themselves, and it is for this reason that I do not play ANY established GW armies. I ALWAYS make up my own. Partially because I like my own ideas better then GW's and partially because I think people enjoy seeing something new, but mostly because I cannot stomach having some other player tell me what I should or should not have in my army.
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The MTV lie is that people who rebel against tradition are thnking for themselves, while those who follow tradition are just sheep who do not think.
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Old 29 Jul 2005, 04:36   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: How closely should players stick to fluff?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudemaester Joe Roo
Quote:
Originally Posted by O'Dev'n
To fluff, or not to fluff--that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous powergamers
Or to take arms against a sea of literature
And by opposing rule them. To die, to sleep--
No more--and by a sleep to say we end
The game, and the thousand roaring weapons
That war is heir too. 'Tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wished. To play, to fluff--
To fluff--perchance to game: ay, there's the rub,
For in that game of fluff what failures may come
When we face those who deviate from it,
Must give us pause. There's the respect
That makes calamity of such a great game.
For who would bear the lascannons and autocannons,
Th' commisar's roar, the Termi's Armor
The pangs of wounded captains, the cheaters delay,
The insolence of n00bs, and the spurns
That patient merit of th' storyline makes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a Wraithlord? Who would Guardsmen bear,
To move and shoot in a dimlit corner,
But that the dread of something tricked out,
The hidden powerfist, from whose strike
No basic troop returns, puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear that fluff we have
Than fly to deviants that we respect not?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all,
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprise of great pitch and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry
And lose the name of action. -- Soft you now,
The Wraithlords cometh! -- Powergamer, in thy orisons
Be all my sins remembered.

For some reason, I just had to.
I apologize, Shaskespeare has to be rolling his grave.

O'Dev'n
You deserve a medal for that.
Well, Karma will have to do for the literary and prose if nothing else. Very well done.
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Old 29 Jul 2005, 07:47   #13 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: How closely should players stick to fluff?

Good point i should have made myself clearer when i started this thread, the kinda fluff i mean is that of established armies shuch as the SW or ulthwe. I understand respecting the combat doctrines of armies such as BA or raven guard but the question i was really trying to ask (and didnt do very well) is would you stick to an armies beliefs and morals entirely? Such as not putting 2 wraithlords in an eldar amry even if you wanted to
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Old 29 Jul 2005, 08:40   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: How closely should players stick to fluff?

I think all players should stick to fluff of the parent army. I'll Space Marines as an example, as they're a widely played army.

People say "Blood Angels would never take devistator squads because of the black rage, they'll take an assault squad instead".

This is nonsense. They are Space Marines before they are Blood Angels. Meaning that if it was fluff the Blood Angels would use devistators to crack open armor, breach fortifications, etc.. but in game, the chance of them rolling a 1 and having to move negating the ability to shoot - most people won't take them. It's highly out of character for *ANY* space marine army to be one sided with very few exceptions. However, Blood Angels are an army that wants to use the "flaw" more to the advantage - so people build armies taylored to the fact that if they roll that "1" it's not going to have a negative impact on anything.

It's like having a vet sarge in every squad, force commander lead every army, plasma pistols in every squad, a crusader in every battle. Fluff means nothing to in game tactics. It doesn't matter how rare LRC's are, plasma pistols, etc.. they're going to be used in game because they're effective. Think about how much more "fluffy" this game could be with restrictions on such rare things 0-2 plasma weapons, 0-1 Land Raider, Force Commander for 3,000 points or more, etc.. the game would slow to the pace of WFB and if people wanted WFB they'd play WFB. This game is taylored to speed and fluff is just an idea in no way enforced by GW. Doesn't matter if you take 3 Land Raiders, Grand Master Azreal, and Ezekiel in an army - no matter that you'd only see such forces on the grandest of scales in any of the stories... feel free to spend the points on them in game and think nothing of it.

The flip side to that is that you can't play this game like the stories you read about. Do you know how dominate Space Marines would be? 7 feet tall monsters and bolters, all but the thickest of terminator armor would be doomed. There is a fine line between the fiction and the application of this game.

I think as long as the list is legal, no question of fluff should ever come up. Each army is tactically flexable and should be played as such. As much fun as it is to play to the 'theme' of an army - it's often more tactically sound to play to the better units in the codex.

-K
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Old 29 Jul 2005, 14:36   #15 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: How closely should players stick to fluff?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lone wolf
Good point i should have made myself clearer when i started this thread, the kinda fluff i mean is that of established armies shuch as the SW or ulthwe. I understand respecting the combat doctrines of armies such as BA or raven guard but the question i was really trying to ask (and didnt do very well) is would you stick to an armies beliefs and morals entirely? Such as not putting 2 wraithlords in an eldar amry even if you wanted to
If the game designers made it an option, then it is fluffy. Anything beyond this just causes problems and ruins the fun.
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Man, that's the joy of Anime! To revel in the complete and utter wastefullness of making an unstoppable nuclear-powered combat andriod in the shape of a cute little girl, who has the ability to fall in love and wears an enormous bow in her hair.



Don't tell me that you fell for the MTV lie?
The MTV lie is that people who rebel against tradition are thnking for themselves, while those who follow tradition are just sheep who do not think.
It is, of course, completely untrue. The decision to follow tradition is just as much an exercize of free will as is the decision to depart from it.
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Old 29 Jul 2005, 17:33   #16 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: How closely should players stick to fluff?

As close as they want to.

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Old 29 Jul 2005, 19:00   #17 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: How closely should players stick to fluff?

I stopped caring about fluff once I was told by an official GW representative in store and on their help line that "hard wired systems should still be visible on Tau battlesuits" despite them being built within the suit (hard wired not hard point mounted). Not complaining or anything, but if thats one thing to separate fluff from gaming, I don't know what is.
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Old 29 Jul 2005, 19:02   #18 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: How closely should players stick to fluff?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robogem
I stopped caring about fluff once I was told by an official GW representative in store and on their help line that "hard wired systems should still be visible on Tau battlesuits" despite them being built within the suit (hard wired not hard point mounted).* Not complaining or anything, but if thats one thing to separate fluff from gaming, I don't know what is.
Are you STILL complaining about that? :-\
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Man, that's the joy of Anime! To revel in the complete and utter wastefullness of making an unstoppable nuclear-powered combat andriod in the shape of a cute little girl, who has the ability to fall in love and wears an enormous bow in her hair.



Don't tell me that you fell for the MTV lie?
The MTV lie is that people who rebel against tradition are thnking for themselves, while those who follow tradition are just sheep who do not think.
It is, of course, completely untrue. The decision to follow tradition is just as much an exercize of free will as is the decision to depart from it.
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Old 29 Jul 2005, 19:06   #19 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: How closely should players stick to fluff?

The 40k universe is left open to your own whims of creation and addition. That is why there are so many open ended areas, or hints to the truth, but nothing actually stating it. Use the fluff and flavor text as a guide, but make your own path, and be proud of it.
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Old 29 Jul 2005, 19:10   #20 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: How closely should players stick to fluff?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerDurden
The 40k universe is left open to your own whims of creation and addition.* That is why there are so many open ended areas, or hints to the truth, but nothing actually stating it.* Use the fluff and flavor text as a guide, but make your own path, and be proud of it.
Here Here.
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Man, that's the joy of Anime! To revel in the complete and utter wastefullness of making an unstoppable nuclear-powered combat andriod in the shape of a cute little girl, who has the ability to fall in love and wears an enormous bow in her hair.



Don't tell me that you fell for the MTV lie?
The MTV lie is that people who rebel against tradition are thnking for themselves, while those who follow tradition are just sheep who do not think.
It is, of course, completely untrue. The decision to follow tradition is just as much an exercize of free will as is the decision to depart from it.
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