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Bring them down rules
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Old 25 Jun 2010, 00:30   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Bring them down rules

Hey all,

I played a game recently with some I.G. against a Tau player. The I.G. player used "bring them down" or whatever (maybe my wording is being affected by the LOTR scene if you know what I am talking about). Anyway, he had a special weapons team squad with two meltas and a demolition charge, within 6" of a Devilfish. He carried out the order "Bring them down" and it was successful. He said that (and I agreed) the infantry opting to throw the demo charge could re-roll the shot if it missed, since it says, "treat weapons with the twin-linked rule." Now I know twin-linked means two guns linked together, but the demo charge is a ranged weapon technically, not a grenade.
The issue was that in the weapon profile it says "one shot only." The tau player claimed that since it was a "one shot only" weapon, the throw couldn't be re-rolled if missed. Now I know it seems cheesy to "twin-link" a demo charge, but as far as the rules are concerned, I couldn't find anywhere in the IG codex or the rulebook saying it couldn't be done, nor any info on "one shot only" weapons. I argued that twin-linking doesn't give the same statistical probability of two shots; it still has one shot, but at a higher chance of scoring a hit. The commander giving the order isn't somehow manifesting all their weapons as twinlinked, but instead is making it imperative to take something down, and for game purposes of increasing chance of hitting something, is simply treating the shots as twinlinked.

Anyway, I figured someone here would know and/or have run into this problem before, and could give the appropriate insight into the issue.

Thanks!
sliced
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Old 25 Jun 2010, 00:52   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Bring them down rules

I'm not entirely sure, but in this case it sounds like you should be able to twinlink it.
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Old 25 Jun 2010, 00:58   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Bring them down rules

Pg. 31 of the rule book, section titled Twin-linked template weapons. Summary, twin-linked template weapon re-roll wounds, not hits.
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Old 25 Jun 2010, 01:11   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Bring them down rules

That refers to the flamer template Thor, not a blast marker weapon. As flamers auto-hit. The demo charge doesn't use template by how the BRB uses it.
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Old 25 Jun 2010, 01:34   #5 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Bring them down rules

The template rules do not answer the main question, guys.

Sliced, you were correct. One use only does indeed mean you may only use it once, but it does not mean that that one shot cannot be rerolled due to Twin-Linking. The rulebook on pg 31 even describes it similarly to how you did; the weapon is not fired more times than normal, it simply has an increased chance of hitting.
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Old 25 Jun 2010, 01:47   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Bring them down rules

Well it's a little late but that's pretty cool and kinda lame at the same time. It prevents abuse with mystics but for those who bought their models it means there are now useless models in your collection.

Funny enough all they did was remove pages from the old dex, like the allies page. But it still allows for slain outright force weapons.

So yeah, that basically removes the mixed codex arguement unless witch hunters can still ally, but I allready know vulkans twin linker rule only applies to people with the chapter tactics trait.
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Old 25 Jun 2010, 01:50   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Bring them down rules

Hijiri, I'm pretty sure you just posted in the wrong thread... :P
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Old 25 Jun 2010, 06:26   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Bring them down rules

I'm pretty sure I did too, that's supposed to be in >Space Marines>Mixing Codexs

Go me and forgetting which tab I was under in multi-tab browsing.
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Old 29 Jul 2010, 23:46   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Bring them down rules

if the demo pack have a blast marker, he may re roll the scatter dice... that is the rule i can remember...
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Old 16 Aug 2010, 23:33   #10 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: Bring them down rules

Sorry guys, I am going to have to sternly disagree.
A demo charge is one shot only.
In the BRB, the key words are, "A set of twinlinked weapons counts as a single weapon", and "to represent this fusillade of fire.."

Now, the first sentence obviously implies 2 weapons, which in the case of a demo charge, is only a quantity 1 weapon from the rule "one shot only". And this makes complete sense seeing as how it's an explosive. Do you think he would carry around 2 charge packs but only be allowed to use one?
The second sentence uses the word fusillade. For people unfamiliar with the word who may have just glossed over it, a fusillade is defined as "a number of shots fired simulataneously, or in rapid sucession". This directly contradicts "one shot only".

When the BRB speaks of TL weapons saying "don't get more shots than normal ones", they are simply referring to how many possible hits. ie, You don't get 2 shots, you get a rerollable shot because the nature of twin-linked weapons is that shots act in such a way that only one can hit.

When considering twin-linked weapons think of it like a shotgun shooting a tin can at 30 yards. A couple pellets will hit, but a lot will miss. This is because you are increasing the chances of your single shot to hit by increasing the spray with the number of shots within the single shot.
You can also think of it like a double barrel shotgun if you prefer. The barrels are angled to converge at 40 yds, which means that if you fire at something further away, say 80 yards, chances are only one shot will hit, or none may hit.

I think there should be an errata released to address this for people reading too much into it, but it's pretty obvious that it says "one shot only" and twin-link covers weapons firing in tandem, 2 shots.
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