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Help me choose a race!
Old 24 Jun 2010, 23:10   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3
Default Help me choose a race!

Hey all,

New player here. I've played two games total, both with proxies (I was Tau, friend was Chaos). I'm pretty familiar with the rules and have a general understanding of the available races. So! First off, please try to explain any abbreviations you use so I can understand what you're saying. Cool. Point of this post is to discuss the races with me so I can make an informed decision! THANKS IN ADVANCE!!!

So I'm looking to start from nothing. I have a 5th ed. rulebook and access to all of the codexes but no models (well, a Farseer and a Vindicare that I painted for competition but who cares?). I'm starting with a friend who is going to be fielding a DIY SM army so I would like to pick a different race. We're both college students so we'll be acquiring models slowly (and taking care painting them)

So here are the factors:
  • Not SM
  • Possible to play at 500, 750, 1k, etc. point values (we're building our armies at the same time!)
  • Hopefully something that doesn't get roflstomped by MEQs
  • Ideally has Troops that can survive outside of a transport

Potential Races:
- Orks
- Nids
- Tau
- Eldar
- Necrons
- IG

On to my assumptions!
-> Orks: dislike the lack of armor saves, dislike the simplicity, like the crazy.
-> Nids: dislike bugs, dislike models, like their rules/weapons
-> CSM: I like Chaos...
-> Tau: dislike troop feebleness, dislike suit models, dislike outdated codex (ie: flimsy army)
-> Eldar: like the idea of specialized troops, dislike the practice of specialized troops
-> Necrons: like immortality, dislike bland models
-> IG: *shrug* should do more research... really dislike needing tanks.

Right now I'm leaning towards Eldar or Chaos though the reason I approach the forums is that I'd like to hear your opinions on your own armies. Which are the most fun in 500-750pt skirmishes? How about expanding that to 1k/1.5k? What if your primary enemy is SM?

Additional Thoughts:
Like markerlights, Dislike needing markerlights
Like snipers, Dislike bad snipers
Like transports, Dislike tanks

That's all for now! Thanks again
Bigfashizzel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 Jun 2010, 00:22   #2 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Irvine, Ca
Posts: 65
Default Re: Help me choose a race!

Well, your statements about vehicles makes me wonder how do you feel about Walkers. Because out of that list there are a couple armies, most notably Chaos and Orks that can field a number of walker baddies. I would tend to gravitate towards Chaos as a first army, but that is because I personally love the Defiler. It brings two of my great loves in 40k, Template weapons and Dreadnought Close Combat Weapons, into one bangin package. But, let me go through each of the armies to give my rational:

Orks are, to my mind at least, the most fun and funny army in 40k. They are a very competitive army with numerous effective builds, from Hordes of Boyz, to the Bike Swarm, to Walker spam, and even fully meched up. And if you don't like their crappy armor save, then plop a Big Mek with Kustom Force Field in the middle and watch them laugh off enemy shooting with their portable cover save. It is pretty easy to get a hold of many of their staple units because of the Assault on Black Reach set (just check out ebay) and, because they are one of the more popular armies, they are easier to get really discounted models from places like ebay.

Nids are somewhat more complex in terms of army composition, but again, can be very effective with a number of different builds. That being said, if you don't like the models, you're not going to enjoy modeling and painting them nearly as much as you otherwise might. As the hobby aspect is a huge commitment to the game, I would say probably not Nids.

Chaos, on the other hand, has some fantastic models, some really exemplary units, and can be a pretty flexible army. They have some horrifically powerful characters (Abbadon), great heavy support (Oblits and Defilers) and some of the best troops choices in the game thanks to their cult troops. Add in that they are a fairly forgiving army thanks to their 3+ save, high number of attacks, etc, and they are easy to collect because they have historically been so popular.

It seems that you don't much care for the Tau in any respect, from how they play to how they look. They are a good army (nobody can deal with heavy armor like they can) but they do suffer against a number of the new books that focus on having incredibly fast assault troops (I'm looking at you, Blood Angels). Not one of my top recomendations, and it doesn't seem you're that keen on them either.

Eldar are a very solid choice. They have some fantastically fun toys to play with, especially Wraithlords and the new Nightspinner, they are fast, and all of their units are fantastic at what they do. That being said, they are one of the least forgiving armies to play because their units are so specialized. if you bring the wrong build up against the wrong army it's like bringing a knife to a gun fight; you're in a world of trouble. But, if you like the models, rules, fluff, whatever, just go for it.

I do have something of a soft spot for the Necrons as they are where I got my start. They can be very effective, but there are only a couple effective builds, usually revolving around Destroyers, one of the C'tan, Monoliths, or a mix thereof. Destroyers are, in my opinion, one of the best units in the entire game, however. Plus, they should be getting an update sometime in the next 12-18 months, and so should be getting substantially better. They do suffer against heavy armor (ironically) and against close combat anything because of their low initiative and how Sweeping Advance is an exception to We'll be Back.

Guard are one of the most popular tournament armies at the moment, and there is good reason. They are the only army that can make an effective gunline (what is affectionately known as Shooty Imperial Guard Army From Hell, or SIGAFH), and they can mech up more effectively than about anyone. They can put up a literal wall of Chimera Transports while artillery, of which they have the best, murders anything on the table. Just google the Leafblower list and you'll see a perfect example of this. That being said, if you don't like Tanks, Guard are probably not gonna do it for you, as that is their biggest strength; they can field more and more effective tanks than just about anybody.

In summation, I would steer you towards Orks or Chaos, but I can only do so much. There is only so much anybody can do. And you don't need any rational for collecting an army other than "I like the models" or "I like the fluff." If somebody is giving you advice and you disagree with them, hang what they say, you do what you want. It's up to you what makes the game worth participating in
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Old 25 Jun 2010, 01:26   #3 (permalink)
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Default Re: Help me choose a race!

I'm going to say the same thing based on what you have said. Orks or chaos.

Now this is completely separate, but $$$ wise you can build a chaos army pretty cheap if that is a concern. Not just any chaos army of course, but a bezerker heavy list. A box of 12 zerkers is cheaper than a box of 10 CSMs. However equipped the standard way a squad of 8 zerkers normally costs around the same amount of points as 10 CSMs. So every 3 squads of zerkers(2 12 man boxes) is less in $, and about the same in points as 30 CSMs.

Now you don't want an all zerker list, but 2 boxes of zerkers(3 8 man squads) is a decent foundation for a hth oriented chaos army. You'll want some rhinos for those zerkers, some basic CSMs and/or obliterators for anti tank firepower, and of course an HQ. And 'eventually' down the line zerkers are also a great unit to put in a land raider.

Zerkers also work if you 'like the crazy'. Only downside is that they do prefer to have transports but they 'can' survive without them. Just don't plan on building a tournament level chaos army without transports.

"What if your primary enemy is SM?" Now chaos, eldar, and orks are all fine against marines. Eldar have tons of low ap weapons that cut apart marines, but they are fragile and have a steeper learning curve(you'll likely loose more early on). Orks can overwhelm marines. Chaos marines are marines but there are a couple differences. They have a 'sweat spot' against SMs. At long ranges SMs can pack more heavy firepower, but Chaos marines have more attacks in hand to hand combat and a lot of our weapons are better within 12". So if you can get within Hth->12" you'll do really well against marines(which is why you need transports). Bezerkers especially so in close combat.

Like transports, Dislike tanks This goes somewhat with chaos. Rhinos are the backbone of the army. But in most situations obliterators are better than our actual tanks. And while oblits are expensive there are plenty of guides on how to convert normal terminators into obliterators. Eldar don't have any 'tanks', by that I mean all their vehicles are classified as skimmers. And their transports often pack as much firepower as tanks. Ork vehicles are normally lightly armored but rather fast.

Like snipers, Dislike bad snipers What constitutes a sniper? Eldar and Tau have actual sniper snipers. This is something chaos doesn't have. Its more of an in your face army. Obliterators can snipe, but a lascannon isn't exactly a sniper rifle. Its an anti-tank laser... but you can use if for sniping if you want.

Hope that helps. I talked more about chaos than the others because I understand chaos more than the others. For a new person I would say orks or chaos. Both are forgiving armies(1 mistake won't ruin your entire day), both are good against SMs, both are crazy. I personally prefer elite psychotic crazy(CSMs) over stupid I'm gonna eat ya crazy(orks) but thats just me.
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Old 25 Jun 2010, 01:59   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Help me choose a race!

Originally Posted by Bigfashizzel
  • Possible to play at 500, 750, 1k, etc. point values (we're building our armies at the same time!)
Potential Races:
- Necrons

-> Necrons: like immortality, dislike bland models
Although you're steering away from them, just going to say Necron's start getting good at 1500pts. There is no variation at 500 points, and not much variation at 1000pts.

Seems like Chaos SMs would be you're best bet. They're fun, fairly competitive, good against MEQs, are more forgiving than Eldar and have more survivability than Orks. Although, as said, Chaos really wants for Rhino transports.

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Old 25 Jun 2010, 02:23   #5 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3
Default Re: Help me choose a race!


Thanks for the replies all! I'm going to fumble with it a little more but I really appreciate the advice. Now I'll just be deciding between the Orks or the Chaos!

- Big
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Old 25 Jun 2010, 03:17   #6 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 74
Default Re: Help me choose a race!

As a current Necron player I'll say that at 1k there is a decent amount of variation (mostly in playstyle rather than actual army composition). Under that there is even less variation in army composition, but you can still play with various playstyles (most of this comes in the form of changing your Lord's wargear). As long as your friend doesn't tailor his marines for killing you you'll probably have a chance.

But I think I'll agree with the rest and say you should go with Chaos Space Marines. The models will be more varied and will allow for fun painting. For this I'd only say Necrons because they're pretty easy on the wallet since they have expensive (in points) units and most of what you'll use comes in plastic.
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