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First Spearhead Game
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Old 06 Jun 2010, 02:31   #1 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default First Spearhead Game

Ok, just finished a Tau vs IG Spearhead Game, 3000 points, Game was 6 turns.

Spearheads were:

Tau:

Tankhunters: 3 Railheads
Ambush: 2 Railheads
Skyfall: 2 seperate TX42s

IG:

Superheavy: Baneblade
Mechanised Assault: 3 Chimeras with Auto Cannons (containing 2 Guard squads with a Melta Gun and 1 Platoon Command Squad with 4 Flamers)
Armoured Assault: 3 LRBTs

Tau also had:

8 Battlesuits ( 2 Shas'Os and two 3 man Helios Teams)
6 XV25s (2 Fusion Blasters, 2 Marker Drones)
A Remora

IG also had:

1 Vanquisher
3 Basilisks
1 Manticore
2 Vendettas (Heavy Bolters)
1 Valkrye (Multilaser, Multiple Rocket Pods, Heavy Bolters)

Basiclly, Tau got owned, brutally.

The simple fact here is that IG can already do some of these Spearheads, without having to pay for them, for example, Mech Assault Spearhead. IG can Take Al Raheim for about the same cost, and get a fancy sword in the bargain, Their only fast skimmer can Deepstrike, Outflank and Scout, so doesnt need The Seek and Destroy Spearhead. Add to that they now (Technically they have access to Tau Multitrackers and Target Locks, and they are even more powerful than before.)

The LRBTs Lumbering Behemoth special rule, when combined with the Spearhead Special Rule, means that they can move 6+d6 inches and fire 3 Main weapons, Turret, Hull mounted and 1 Sponson weapon. So 3 main weapons + defensive at cruising speed, and in this case gain a 5++ save aswell.

Their abiltiy to get Melta teams behind your lines in turn one is just as devestating as all your Tau Dpod coversaves will be negated, even if they have been boosted to 3+. And 4 flamers hitting your rear armour are just as capable of killing you as anything else.

As for what the Tau do get from this....well....Tankhunters would of helped, but i never rolled less then 5 for penetration it wasnt really needed. The Skyfall was usefull, as i didnt scatter for either TX42, and got the TL Fusion Blasters on the Side and Rear armour of that Baneblade, but still only took 1 structure point away over the whole game.

Simply put, as a game I enjoyed it, as a Tau Player, i didn't. We have lost to much in seeing our Wargear spread around for everyone and gained nothing in return that makes us as powerful as we should be in a Tank Gun Fight.

The Spearhead Force Org is also quite abusable. My opponant toyed with the idea of taking 3 Vendettas in a Skyfall Spearhead, and then moving out of the Formation and become 3 seperate Vehicles that take up no space in the Force Org. To put that in perspective, a person with 30 Tanks could easily field them all as 3 squads of 3 in the HS Slot and the rest as 21 individual Tanks that take up no space, especially if the tanks in question have no need of the Spearhead bonus, as the Vendettas dont need the Seek and Destroy Bonus due to their built in abilities.

In finsishing, this game as Tau is very very hard to play against a competant IG player, simply because of the amount of Bonuses given to them by these new rules, and how they stack up with what they already have and how many "free slots" are provided by the Spearheads.

One possible upside however, Mech Assault Spearhead contain Blackout Squads. In enemy lines 1st turn, get to a vital unit, such as a superheavy and kill it straight ofd the bat, and you just might have a chance.

Haapy Hunting.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Circus
It is (and this is an objective statement, looking at examples over the last century) really ****ing hard to terrorise the British.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shas'o Ahab
In parting, I've discovered why Farsight started his breakaway faction...
*Farsight looks at Dawn Blade* "Shiny..."*Farsight picks up Dawn Blade and looks around* "... let's be bad guys."
Quote:
Originally Posted by The man they call Waffles
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Old 06 Jun 2010, 08:51   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: First Spearhead Game

I don't know wether it counts as a game seeming as the opponent left half way through the first players go of Turn 1. IG (me) vs Eldar.
[table]
[tr]
[td]IG:
Acheotech
Leman Russ Battle Tank - Plasma cannon sponsons, Lascannon
Devildog (the fast melta thign) - Multimelta
Seek and Destroy
Vendetta - Transporting 10 veterans with 3 Meltaguns
Mechanised assault
Chimera - 10 Veterans, 3 meltaguns
Chimera - 10 Veterans, 3 Grenade Launcher
Chimera - Company Command Squad, 4 Grenade Launcher
Tank Hunter
Basilisk - Enclosed Crew Compartment
Manticore

That comes to just under 1500 (I skipped a few upgrades)
[/td]
[td]Eldar:
Outrider (yeah this isn't legal but we didn't realise/care at the time)
2 Falcon grav tanks - Bright lance, shuriken cannon
1 Falcon carrying farseer (wargear unknown)
Tankhunter
2 Fire Prism
1 Falcon grav tank - Bright lance, Shuriken cannon (Carrying Eldrad)

To be honest this wasn't a very good list at all.[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

Deployment went with his tanks in their formations on either side spread out just enough to help hide from the manticores wrath. Odly the outrider spearhead wasn't in 4" something which will later prove a big mistake.

IG got first turn and just tried to make best use of cover to hide from brightlances while the Vendetta scoutmoved straight up the middle towards a cluster of the outrider squadron. The closest eing the one carying the farseer. The mechanised assault came in on the left where the two fire prisms and the other Falcon positioning for rear armour shots on all with the Meltaguns within 6" of a fire prism. The vendetta moved to deploy its troops (meltaguns) within 6" of the farseer falcon. Shooting was lucky with the vendettas meltaguns scoring three penetrating hits the first of which rolled double six on holofields. The farseer had to get out as there was no outrider escort in 4" to intercept. The vendetta lascannoned him off. The mechanised assault shot 1 chimeras multilaser taking out the falcon with eldrad (rolling double 6 again) before the squads from two of them polished off eldrad with some grenade launcher goodness. Finally the meltagun vets reduced the nearest fireprism to molten slag.

Keep in mind the Basilisk, Manticore, Leman russ and Devildog haven't fired yet, this is where the opponent called the game. I think guard became a very brutal army with spearhead and if they get turn one will say goodbye to most of the enemy. Elite armies with small number certainly suffer. In the end only one of the spearheads actually made a difference the rest didn't get a chance.
[hr]

It helps to fiurther prove your point about our ability to drop meltaguns right behind you.

And your point about vehicles in a spearhead acting alone is true since the devildog went off and did its own thing leaving the leman russ behind. It is a very abusable FOC.

It has given the ability for armies like guard to give devastating alpha strikes leaving you cripple to fight back. But bear in mind this also can be used for other armies such as orks, space marines, chaos. Orks can used mechanised assault to bring on 3 battlewagonswith deffrollas rolling straight into your army form the side before disgorging endless amounts of powerclaws. Space marines can do the same melta tricks as guard but to add insult to injury they can give you a few glances before hand. My point is that it isn't just guard that can use these tricks and they might not even be the best at it but they will hurt you alot.

Spearhead seems to have neglected more elite armies with smaller numbers of vehicles for armies that can take loads then give them bonuses to kill the enemy amrour with.

Obviously the game above wasn't great as it was a bit of a slaughter with flukey holofield luck and some unlucky saves on eldrad plus only lasting 1/4 of a turn.

It is all well and good complaining at guard but I implore you to just think baout other armies, maybe not tau but eldar can do a mechanised assault full of firedragons, dark eldar can drop all their CC units straight into combat.

Anyway before i keep rambling on I will stop... okay stop now... that's it me and you are going to have to take this outside... *PUNCHES SELF AND DRAGS OUT ROOM*
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Old 06 Jun 2010, 10:58   #3 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: First Spearhead Game

Lol....

You're point is well made, I hadnt even Considered Firedragon and such.

The reason that i still point out Guard as the Guys to use are because of the inherent cheapness of everything, in a 3000 point game, they can spend 2500 on Tanks and still have a shed load of men with anti tank guns aswell.

And as i pointed out, they dont need the Mech Assault Spearhead to throw stuff into your line from Chimreas. Take Al Raheim and the Spearhead and you will have one unit arriving first turn, and another arriving somewhere during the Game (which you have just lost by the way:P). 6 chimeras is not exactly unlikely from a Mech Guard player is it? And no on has enough firepower to attack the heavy armour on the front and the lighter armour in the back and all the Melta toting men who got out of the Chimeras.

As a Small critique of your lists:

The IG Archeotech and Eldar Outrider and Tankhunter Spearheads are ALL illegal.

It does say in the rule that ALL tanks in a spear head must be of the same type, but can be equipped differently.

The Outrider is the Exception of course, although you seem to have followed the rules with that one. :P:

Thanks for your input ;D
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Circus
It is (and this is an objective statement, looking at examples over the last century) really ****ing hard to terrorise the British.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shas'o Ahab
In parting, I've discovered why Farsight started his breakaway faction...
*Farsight looks at Dawn Blade* "Shiny..."*Farsight picks up Dawn Blade and looks around* "... let's be bad guys."
Quote:
Originally Posted by The man they call Waffles
Jayne you y'xa'uuk legend
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Old 06 Jun 2010, 12:06   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: First Spearhead Game

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man They Call Jayne
Lol....

You're point is well made, I hadnt even Considered Firedragon and such.

The reason that i still point out Guard as the Guys to use are because of the inherent cheapness of everything, in a 3000 point game, they can spend 2500 on Tanks and still have a shed load of men with anti tank guns aswell.

And as i pointed out, they dont need the Mech Assault Spearhead to throw stuff into your line from Chimreas. Take Al Raheim and the Spearhead and you will have one unit arriving first turn, and another arriving somewhere during the Game (which you have just lost by the way:P). 6 chimeras is not exactly unlikely from a Mech Guard player is it? And no on has enough firepower to attack the heavy armour on the front and the lighter armour in the back and all the Melta toting men who got out of the Chimeras.
I agree that while guard don't do it best they certainly do it cheaper and more of them, without even having the spearhead. And on your "6 chimeras comment" definately not unusual since it is only around 700 points with veterans. Most mech guards have between 4-6 in 1000 points. Not to mention no guard player gets out the chimera thanks to 5 firepoints ( lasguns aren't worth getting out the tank for).

Probaly the main threat to a mech guard player is another mech guard player, or little jimmy whose parents bought him an Emporer titan because he would cry otherwise. :P

I think you probably are right to point the finger at guard who probably benefit the most.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man They Call Jayne
The IG Archeotech and Eldar Outrider and Tankhunter Spearheads are ALL illegal.

It does say in the rule that ALL tanks in a spear head must be of the same type, but can be equipped differently.

The Outrider is the Exception of course, although you seem to have followed the rules with that one. :P:

Thanks for your input ;D
Didn't see that bit, still at least they didn't affect the game much. One thing I noticed is it says that if in the codex you can buy vehicles in a squadron that counts as one entry. So if you were to apply say... Medusas with bastion breacher (railgun stats 48", 2D6 armour penetration, blast) with tankhunter you could have 9 of them. Scary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man They Call Jayne
Game (which you have just lost by the way :P)
:shifty: Attack my minions! ATTACK!

:redscarab: :redscarab: :redscarab: :redscarab: :redscarab: :redscarab: :redscarab: :redscarab: :redscarab: :redscarab: :redscarab: :redscarab: :redscarab: :redscarab:
:
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Old 06 Jun 2010, 12:14   #5 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: First Spearhead Game

Quote:
One thing I noticed is it says that if in the codex you can buy vehicles in a squadron that counts as one entry. So if you were to apply say... Medusas with bastion breacher (railgun stats 48", 2D6 armour penetration, blast) with tankhunter you could have 9 of them. Scary.
Not 100% on that actually. The Skyfall Spearhead can have 3 Squadrons of Piranahs in it, but it does SPECIFICALLY state there that you can take 3 Skimmer UNITS. Otherwise i think its just one individual vehicle. So 3 Medusas would be a complete Spearhead by that logic.

However, given that there are so many abusable bits in this game, im wondering if GW will release an FAQ about it. They say they will be releasing more Spearhads aswell ans more new Apoc Formations.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Circus
It is (and this is an objective statement, looking at examples over the last century) really ****ing hard to terrorise the British.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shas'o Ahab
In parting, I've discovered why Farsight started his breakaway faction...
*Farsight looks at Dawn Blade* "Shiny..."*Farsight picks up Dawn Blade and looks around* "... let's be bad guys."
Quote:
Originally Posted by The man they call Waffles
Jayne you y'xa'uuk legend
The Man They Call Jayne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06 Jun 2010, 12:27   #6 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Posts: 2,609
Default Re: First Spearhead Game

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man They Call Jayne
Quote:
One thing I noticed is it says that if in the codex you can buy vehicles in a squadron that counts as one entry. So if you were to apply say... Medusas with bastion breacher (railgun stats 48", 2D6 armour penetration, blast) with tankhunter you could have 9 of them. Scary.
Not 100% on that actually. The Skyfall Spearhead can have 3 Squadrons of Piranahs in it, but it does SPECIFICALLY state there that you can take 3 Skimmer UNITS. Otherwise i think its just one individual vehicle. So 3 Medusas would be a complete Spearhead by that logic.

However, given that there are so many abusable bits in this game, im wondering if GW will release an FAQ about it. They say they will be releasing more Spearhads aswell ans more new Apoc Formations.
I was looking at paragraph 2 of 'Choosing Units'. It could definately be worded better.

I hope it gets FAQed. Especially for necrons as we have a lot of things that have 'jetbike movement' (they move in the same way and can turbo boost) but they aren't a jetbike. Which leads to confusion for things like seek and destoy. Necorns curiiously get some significant boosts.

Also tombsyders which are specifically described (as you can buy a unit of 3) that while they act independently they are a single UNIT. Which if combined with the monstrous spearhead where 6 UNITS are sleected means you can have 6x3 (Read as written) so 18 tombspyders with all the bonuses. Now that is enough to make you cry.especially when you do the scarab making ability (1 for each tombspyder) and majority toughness means that on top of the 36 wounds for the tombspyders you get an extra 54 T6 wounds to have to eat through (though statistically 1 or 2 wounds will be inflicted onto the tombspyders). It seems necrons can play the cheesy game aswell.
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