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Buildings and Melta/Monstrous Creatures
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Old 31 May 2010, 08:15   #1 (permalink)
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Default Buildings and Melta/Monstrous Creatures

In the rules for Monstrous Creatures and Melta weapons, it describes the extra dice being rolled when attacking a Vehicle. However, Buildings are not technically vehicles, but do have armour values. I am concerned that a local player I will be fighting soon will try to rule that my Monstrous Creatures don't get to roll 2d6 for penetrating his Bastions, since the League Game we will be fighting will be an Annihilation scenario for his home base, and he will get two AV14 Bastions with Heavy Bolters and a Lascannon in his defense, and the only way to get the people inside is to destroy the Bastion. As a Daemons player, it will be hard for me to destroy AV 14 without throwing extra dice for my MCs. Obviously, the rule should kick in for Buildings but I can't find any RAW to support me. Page numbers would be useful if anyone can lend a hand.
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Old 31 May 2010, 11:32   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Buildings and Melta/Monstrous Creatures

Unless somebody has figured out how to make bastions out of Necron Monolith skin, then you will get the 2d6. Buildings, when they aren't treated as ruined buildings, are just immobile vehicles. Seriously, arguing that you don't get melta against AV 14 bastions is nuts. Unless you're a tau player packing lots of railguns (or the crazy warp lance that the new Tyranids get), how they heck are you supposed to kill them? Most armies do not have strength 10 guns!

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Old 31 May 2010, 11:54   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Buildings and Melta/Monstrous Creatures

You can kill a building with a Str 8 weapon. It is immobile, so all immobilised results become weapon destroyed. It has no weapons, so all weapon destroyed results become 'wreaked'.
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Old 31 May 2010, 12:13   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Buildings and Melta/Monstrous Creatures

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Originally Posted by Wargamer
You can kill a building with a Str 8 weapon. It is immobile, so all immobilised results become weapon destroyed. It has no weapons, so all weapon destroyed results become 'wreaked'.
Nope, refer to rulebook under buildings. BUildings ignore immobolized and weapon destroyed results (unless it has weapons, then it is normal until it has no weapons, then it ignores them) so S8 cannot hurt an AV14 vehicle unless it has another ability.

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Old 31 May 2010, 12:37   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Buildings and Melta/Monstrous Creatures

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Originally Posted by Lord Zambia
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Originally Posted by Wargamer
You can kill a building with a Str 8 weapon. It is immobile, so all immobilised results become weapon destroyed. It has no weapons, so all weapon destroyed results become 'wreaked'.
Nope, refer to rulebook under buildings. BUildings ignore immobolized and weapon destroyed results (unless it has weapons, then it is normal until it has no weapons, then it ignores them) so S8 cannot hurt an AV14 vehicle unless it has another ability.

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And that is why we have House Rules - to ignore the stupidity of Games Workshop. Str 9 and 10 is comparatively rare, whereas Str 8 is all over the place. Ergo, Str 8 should be able to kill a building.
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Old 31 May 2010, 12:43   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Buildings and Melta/Monstrous Creatures

Not all buildings are AV14. Only bastions and the most fortified of the lot should be. Most buildings will, more realistically, fall under other armor values.

In answer to the OP's question, yes, you would get your Melta bonus. Anything less is just twisting the rules.
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Old 31 May 2010, 13:56   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Buildings and Melta/Monstrous Creatures

Don't think of it as only getting and extra die against vehicles. It is an extra die for the purposes of armour penetration. These building have an AV14, therefore all rules for armour penetration apply. Sound confident enough and it shouldn't be a problem.
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Old 31 May 2010, 20:20   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Buildings and Melta/Monstrous Creatures

As said above. Melta and MC count against armor penetration rolls... buildings count as armor, thats all that needs to be said.

I personally miss being able to mix siege specialist and tank hunters. SS gave a +1 on the die roll against buildings and buildings only. Tank hunters gave a +1 on all rolls to penetrate armor... so an IW with a lascannon and tank hunters was str9 with a +2(so basically str 11) on the roll against bunkers. Thats a case where I would let someone argue over the specifics of the rule but the intent is extremely clear in this case.

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Old 31 May 2010, 22:57   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Buildings and Melta/Monstrous Creatures

AP1 and S8 can still pop buildings but that's rarer still. I do agree that it is armor and any 2d6 armor breaking weapon would still be 2d6. Otherwise nids and daemons are pretty hosed on AV14
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Old 31 May 2010, 23:36   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Buildings and Melta/Monstrous Creatures

I agree that it should be, but the way the rules are written say that you get the die against VEHICLES, and unless there's a place that sayse that buildings count as vehicles, I could potentially get hosed by a RAW laywer. That's why I'm asking for specific page numbers to use against any potential problems that will show up
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