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templates and stealth
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Old 26 May 2010, 17:25   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Default templates and stealth

I was using a basilisk on these fire warriors in a trench, and the question came to me, do they get cover if the barrage weapon is coming down ON them? The new rulebook is also a bit unclear about templates; do all templates ignore cover? And last but not least trees. I was using the same basilisk to fire at some eldar rangers that had stealth, do I have to be in 36 in. range (roll 3D6 multiplied by 2)to see them, or since I couldn't see them in the first place, they don't gain stealth benefits. Which one applies?
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Old 26 May 2010, 17:31   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: templates and stealth

The Rulebook is quite clear on templates.

If the weapon has the template rule (I.e. uses the teardrop shaped template), then it ignores cover saves (page 29).

If it has the blast rule (I.e. uses either of the circular templates) then cover saves are taken as normal (page 30 mentions no exceptions to the normal rules so the normal rules are used as described on page 21).

If it has the barrage rule (I.e. may fire out of line of sight and uses either of the circular templates) then cover saves are used as normal, counting the shot to have come from the centre of the template itself instead of where the firer is firing from (page 32).


The Stealth universal special rule does NOT grant the protection that Night Fighting does. Its rules can be found on page 76 of the rulebook.
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Old 26 May 2010, 17:35   #3 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: templates and stealth

Stealth is a USR that gives you a modified cover save. It does not give you any Night Fight'esque ability.

Furthermore, "blast" template of any size do not ignore cover unless otherwise mentioned in their rules. Flamer templates do ignore cover on every weapon I've seen.

One mistake people read in the rules is that of Barrage weapons. For these, the attack is considered to have come from the center of the template, which can (in some cases) ignore cover that would normally be a LOS issue for the firing unit. However, area terrain still will give you a cover save vs. these.

Edit- You damn ninja MT! XD
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Old 26 May 2010, 17:36   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: templates and stealth

thanks for clearing up, but I don't think you know what I mean about the stealth. The basilisk could not see the eldar rangers in the first place, but they had stealth. Do I still have to roll 3D6 times 2 to see them even though they were across the board with a mountain blocking them (big map) ? Also, the the center hit INSIDE the trench, with tau fire warriors in it.
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Old 26 May 2010, 17:42   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: templates and stealth

There are only two times you need to roll to see something; if the Night Fighting rules are in effect (page 95 of the rulebook) or if the unit has its own special rule requiring you to do so. Off the top of my head, the only units that do include Vindicare Assassins, Eldar Harlequins with Shadowseers, Tau Stealth Teams and Commander Shadowsun (there may well be more than this list). Having the Stealth USR, as described on page 76, does NOT alter this in any way, even if using regular Night Fighting rules.

If the Basilisk could not see the target, then under normal circumstances it could not shoot. However, since it is armed with a barrage weapon, then according to the barrage weapon's rules (page 32) it MAY target a unit out of line of sight. However, absolutely NO mention is made of needing to roll dice to see them.


If the centre of the template hit INSIDE the trench, and you had not discussed it with your opponent that the trenches counted as area terrain, then the Fire Warriors would have had no cover save allowed to them (unless they decided to Go To Ground for a 6+ cover save).
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Old 26 May 2010, 17:42   #6 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: templates and stealth

If you did not have direct LOS, then you'd follow the normal rules for that in the BOB.
Aside from that, there is no rule that makes you roll to spot Eldar Rangers in any normal setting that's not Night Fight.

As for the second, this is one reason players should discuss area terrain before the game. We can't answer if the trench was or not, that was between your opponent and you.

Edit- MT! :shifty:
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Old 26 May 2010, 18:20   #7 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: templates and stealth

Firing Barrage weapons in Night Fight is different to the usual Night Fight rules. It can be found under the Night Fight section of the rulebook. Put briefly and if my memory serves me correctly, Barrage weapons needn't roll to spot their targets when Night Fight is in effect, but they scatter an extra D6, meaning anything other than a hit will result in a 3D6" scatter.

So in your case, the Basilisk wouldn't have to roll to see the Rangers, he'd just place the template as normal, but with an extra d6" of inaccuracy due to Night Fight.
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