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List tailoring (split)
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Old 19 May 2010, 03:33   #1 (permalink)
Zen
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Default List tailoring (split)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ARCHER
ok folks this is the last stats from last hobby league 45% players are IG and the 35% are marine players and the remaining the remaining are 20% are orks and nids and the last 10 % are tau and DE and the inqusition forces. So personally for me in my area tl plasmas are a good build because of the frequency of marines turning up.
I accuse you of tailoring.
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Old 19 May 2010, 04:47   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: TL plasma on broadsides?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenai
Quote:
Originally Posted by ARCHER
ok folks this is the last stats from last hobby league 45% players are IG and the 35% are marine players and the remaining the remaining are 20% are orks and nids and the last 10 % are tau and DE and the inqusition forces. So personally for me in my area tl plasmas are a good build because of the frequency of marines turning up.
I accuse you of tailoring.
Actually, that's playing the metagame technically.

I take an Ionhead for the prevalence of MC's and MEQ's in my area, yet I do not consider this tailoring since I can use it against any opponent.

Likewise, while many believe that plasma on XV88's is a waste, they can be used against any enemy really, they're just more effective against MEQ's.
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Old 19 May 2010, 06:09   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: TL plasma on broadsides?

Zenai I know you accused me of list tailoring, but how else are we going to defend against those BA. Almost every marine player painted their marines red before the codex came out, as it is the tau way we must adapt to survive because we are using a bottom tier army right now. If you can come up with a play style to fight drop pod vulcan and BA armies or BA mech and IG when they go first turn using the things we have I will happily listen, because right now to defend ourselves from such over powered armies we need to change our wargear to meet requirements to not suffer such humiliating defeats. Secondly plasma on broadsides only makes slightly harder for our opponents and the odds are still in there favor.

This isn't to insult you but questioning how we should play if we are to hold our ground in tournaments if we don't tailor our lists
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Old 19 May 2010, 06:50   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: TL plasma on broadsides?

Actually looking at the statistics again, MEQs are clearly not the majority so I do like to take the opportunity to apologize to ARCHER though I'm having difficulty understanding the ethical side of "...right now to defend ourselves from such over powered armies we need to change our wargear to meet requirements to not suffer such humiliating defeats..." but whatever. I'm not playing in the tournament.
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Old 19 May 2010, 08:33   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: TL plasma on broadsides?

I agree Zenai, Tailoring I can't agree with... Tourney or not, I would consider it cheating.
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Old 19 May 2010, 08:39   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: TL plasma on broadsides?

Tailoring? Is that building an army for the sole purpose of crush a specific type of opponent? Or is that something else?
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Old 19 May 2010, 12:17   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: TL plasma on broadsides?

Quote:
Originally Posted by l337n1nj4l1nk
Tailoring? Is that building an army for the sole purpose of crush a specific type of opponent? Or is that something else?
Thats right, if for example you knew you were going to be fighting your friends Marines the next day and deliberatly built an army to crush his Marines into the ground and catch his all comers list offguard, that would be list Tailoring - And I agree with Zenai and Ender, its not a good way to play.

There is a caveat however, if both players are aware of the game, and both players are specifically tailoring there lists to fight each other - Thats fine.

List Tailoring only really becomes an offence when you are deliberatly doing it against an opponent who does not realise you are going to do it, and is just playing there normal all comers list.

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Old 19 May 2010, 12:28   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: TL plasma on broadsides?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charistoph
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishpaste the elder
It is like putting a BB gun underslung on your bazooka :funny:
Ever play an FPS with just a bazooka? It's great until you're shooting someone that's next to your face. We're lucky that our main AT Infantry can also double as Anti-Infantry in a pinch. Most others have to choose.
Well, for the 40 points it cost for 2 BS to have plasma, I can add 13 more points and have a monat with TA and TL FB or TL MP. so, yeah slinging plasma on a BS is foolish. Put weapons where they are needed, not hanging off of every limb. Better to be able to give the BS something that helps it survive.

Say a pod of SM drops in with a melta and plasma right next to your BS. What will your plasma do there? Assuming he doesn't instakill you with the melta and plasma, you get 2 shots back next turn. that's a total of 2 dead MEQ out of 10. Bet he won't take the melta or plasma guy as casualties. In his turn he walks up and P fists your Bs into next week. Your plasma did nothing.

No one in there right mind, that has experience playing, is going to give you a chance to use it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFishing
List Tailoring only really becomes an offence when you are deliberately doing it against an opponent who does not realise you are going to do it, and is just playing there normal all comers list.
Is this another silly online creation like "power gaming"? Of course you taylor lists to play different types of opponents. who doesn't outside of middleschool? Anyone here who thinks that a quality player doesn't "taylor" their list to fight different foes is just fooling themselves.

I truly wish this online community--and others like it--would stop finding unwritten rules and codes to judge others by. It is arbitrary and divisive.
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Old 19 May 2010, 14:19   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: TL plasma on broadsides?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishpaste the elder
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charistoph
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishpaste the elder
It is like putting a BB gun underslung on your bazooka :funny:
Ever play an FPS with just a bazooka? It's great until you're shooting someone that's next to your face. We're lucky that our main AT Infantry can also double as Anti-Infantry in a pinch. Most others have to choose.
Well, for the 40 points it cost for 2 BS to have plasma, I can add 13 more points and have a monat with TA and TL FB or TL MP. so, yeah slinging plasma on a BS is foolish. Put weapons where they are needed, not hanging off of every limb. Better to be able to give the BS something that helps it survive.

Say a pod of SM drops in with a melta and plasma right next to your BS. What will your plasma do there? Assuming he doesn't instakill you with the melta and plasma, you get 2 shots back next turn. that's a total of 2 dead MEQ out of 10. Bet he won't take the melta or plasma guy as casualties. In his turn he walks up and P fists your Bs into next week. Your plasma did nothing.

No one in there right mind, that has experience playing, is going to give you a chance to use it.
I was referring more to having an effective anti-infantry weapon on an effective anti-tank platform more than the specific weapon of Plasma Rifles. Your math may be a little off, depending on the unit, too, as there is often more than one Broadside deployed at a time.

Plasma Rifles and SMS are hardly BB guns, either. It would be more like having the option of an AK-47 or fully automatic shotgun under the barrel of your bazooka.
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Old 19 May 2010, 15:32   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: TL plasma on broadsides?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishpaste the elder
Is this another silly online creation like "power gaming"? Of course you taylor lists to play different types of opponents. who doesn't outside of middleschool? Anyone here who thinks that a quality player doesn't "taylor" their list to fight different foes is just fooling themselves.

I truly wish this online community--and others like it--would stop finding unwritten rules and codes to judge others by. It is arbitrary and divisive.
Don't be stupid, both list tailoring and powergaming are very real.

The reason that good tournament players do not tailor is one of simplicity. I make the argument that tournaments bring out the best quality players, but that's another argument entirely... Anyway, like I said before, it's simple. You can't risk tailoring a list because of multiple armies/builds in a tournament.

Running a full Lascannon/Plasma SM army to specifically take on MEQ/TEQ will leave you with no really good answer for hordes. Conversely, anti-horde won't leave you too well equipped for heavy armor. Balance to some degree is required in a list to fight a number of enemies under variable situations. Either you make a relatively balanced list, or you go for broke with an army that tries to be good enough to break TAC's, but may not be tooled up for some extreme lists. (Nob Biker lists are a good example, they can be very weak to massed fire or Lash, but can steamroll most normal lists besides that)
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