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A rant to 'Nay Sayers' when introducing newbies!
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Old 22 Apr 2010, 19:03   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default A rant to 'Nay Sayers' when introducing newbies!

i would just like to point out that the following such people are far and few between, i read many posts of people giving excellent advice and being very welcoming. its just the negatives stand out alot harder against the positive posts. if this is all to negative, i understand that a post like this can put a new player off just as much as bad advice, then delete it, i just have to have my shout and at least one person read it.

i am fairly new to these forums. and to start with i found all the info i needed for using my army. but now im more involved, reading other posts and well recently ive been very disharted due to some peoples attitude towards the game.

i understand that GW may not be doing as great a job as alot of people would like, but shouldn't we just be getting on with things.

i mean i play a tau army in 40K and people moan like crazy about them being to weak, i have even seen people advising others not to start Tau until a new codex comes out, but thats not what the game is about. not to say this, that or the other MIGHT happen with the realease of a new rulebook/codex. it realy can put people off starting at all.

if you are playing with mates or a local group and you all agree a rule is stupid or overpowered then use a house rule to weaken it or just don't use it at all. ultimately work up tactics to beat the army that thrives on such a rule. JUST HAVE FUN AND ENJOY YOUR EXPERIANCES

now critisms have a place within forums, fair enough, but not for in a post when someone is asking for advice about starting up wether it be 40k, fantasy or LOTR. the idea is to have fun, enjoy the battles however challenging they may be and to collect an army that suits you, to play the army in a way you like, to buy the models you WILL spend the time to sit down and paint. Not having an Ultramarine Grey army because someone said start with them and you find you cant be bothered to paint them.

so welcome a new player into the ranks. tell them of your successes with said army or your encounters playing against them. sure give them warnings but dont put them off an army they could love the look of.

sorry, my rant is almost over

it just seems that there is alot of people out there that do not just warn new players of the difficulties a person may have with an army, but try to put them off using an army, even saying straight to the point of DONT BOTHER WITH THEM. its for a person to decide who he likes the sound or look of. if they say i want an army that will be hard as nails and win alot then say who you think is best.

to finish off - it just seems that some people are haters of the game and just moan about the things they dont like. just enjoy it. if you cant or wont then find something else to do, but don't ruin it for those that do enjoy their times painting, converting and marching their armies onto battlefields.
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WHO SAYS TAU ARE OUTDATED!?
Tau Vs. Space Marines 4-W 1-D 1-L
Tau Vs. Chaos Marines 3-W 1-D 0-L
Tau Vs. Tyranids 0-W 0-D 1-L

Tyranids Vs. Chaos Marines 3-W 0-D 0-L
Tyranids Vs. Space Marines 2-W 0-D 0-L
Tyranids Vs. Tau 1-W 0-D 0-L

Va're'x Campaign Battle #1 ---Va're'x Campaign Battle #2 ---Va're'x Campaign Battle #3 ---Va're'x Campaign Battle #4 ---Va're'x Campaign Battle #5 --- Va're'x Campaign Battle #6
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Old 22 Apr 2010, 19:50   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: A rant to 'Nay Sayers' when introducing newbies!

Gotta play the way you want to play. I'll never tell a person not to play an army but I will warn them of the pros and cons of an army. Tau, Necron, and Dark Eldar seem to be the harder factions to play currently because they haven't had updates. They are playable but don't expect a high win streak, especially if you play competitively.
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Old 22 Apr 2010, 20:17   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: A rant to 'Nay Sayers' when introducing newbies!

Indeed, its perfectly fair to tell somebody that if they choose Army X they may well struggle. If we say, yeah go for it, it'll be great, and they consistantly fail to win because of the fact that their army isnt up to 5th ed snuff, then it is going to put them off the game.

If we say, by all means go for this army, its fun to paint and you'll like the fluff, but be advised that you will struggle to win for some time against many armies, untill you build up your skills.

That is almost our responsability.
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Old 22 Apr 2010, 20:28   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: A rant to 'Nay Sayers' when introducing newbies!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raving Bonkers
so welcome a new player into the ranks. tell them of your successes with said army or your encounters playing against them. sure give them warnings but dont put them off an army they could love the look of.
thats why i said the above. but think about it. when you read through posts for a new person what truly sticks out more? the many people that say yes a great and fun army to paint and have great fluff etc but be warned.... or the one post that says they are rubbish, who says dont bother with them, who says they are a waist etc and truly gives no advice on the army what so ever.

every army can win battles, some just take more thinking about.

thats why i had to have my rant. it seems those few posts can realy put a damper on the game. especialy for someone who just happens across the forum, has no rulebook etc and then thinks maybe il find another hobby.
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WHO SAYS TAU ARE OUTDATED!?
Tau Vs. Space Marines 4-W 1-D 1-L
Tau Vs. Chaos Marines 3-W 1-D 0-L
Tau Vs. Tyranids 0-W 0-D 1-L

Tyranids Vs. Chaos Marines 3-W 0-D 0-L
Tyranids Vs. Space Marines 2-W 0-D 0-L
Tyranids Vs. Tau 1-W 0-D 0-L

Va're'x Campaign Battle #1 ---Va're'x Campaign Battle #2 ---Va're'x Campaign Battle #3 ---Va're'x Campaign Battle #4 ---Va're'x Campaign Battle #5 --- Va're'x Campaign Battle #6
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Old 22 Apr 2010, 20:31   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: A rant to 'Nay Sayers' when introducing newbies!

I don't think you should be blowing sunshine at new players who don't know very much about the game. If you are only picking an army because you like the look of the models, that is one thing. But if you are starting an army expecting a short learning curve before becoming competitive, the older armies are going to be extremely frustrating. I have seen players quit over this, and then they wonder why no one ever warned them.

New players don't need advice on what an army looks like. They can see that for themselves. But they may need advice on how the army is playing with the current crop of rules. I think it is important for people who have been playing for longer to be honest about that. I would much rather see a starting player hold off on spending a ton of time and money on an army that will end up on a shelf.
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Old 22 Apr 2010, 20:35   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: A rant to 'Nay Sayers' when introducing newbies!

You might wanna check out what I posted about confirmation bias Raving. It's a problem alot of people have. One or 2 encounters that re-enforce their opinion of something will cause them to hard code that opinion. It's also known as the melta effect. People will use 1 or 2 anti-tank weapons because they had 1 or 2 glorified successes with the weapon and expect it everytime. But that's rarely the case.

Tau aren't good at close combat, however on a large gameboard tau can dominate almost any army because of superior range and firepower. Most people don't play on large gameboards though, this puts tau at a huge disadvantage. This constantly re-enforces peoples opinions that tau are a bad army, but they aren't, their strengths are just not able to be brought to fruition in tight maps, especially tight maps without terrain.
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Old 22 Apr 2010, 20:40   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: A rant to 'Nay Sayers' when introducing newbies!

Tau aren't a bad army. They are just mediocre. You can still win with them, but it takes experience and careful planning. Your army list isn't going to do it for you, nor are the special rules present in the book. You are going to have to spend a lot of time dealing with expensive and powerful units with strange special rules that you have to equivalent to. Tau do better on large boards, but every army released since Orks has been better at crossing a large board quickly or entering play close to the enemy. And while they are good at long range, they are no longer the best there.

If a player starts with the army understanding all of that, they will be fine. They like the models and the theme, and are willing to put up with a uphill struggles. But it isn't fair to a kid just starting out who just wants to put a few colors on his models and then unleash them on the tabletop.
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Old 22 Apr 2010, 20:46   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: A rant to 'Nay Sayers' when introducing newbies!

like i already quoted. give them warnings. and if they ask for a competitive army then yes advise them to a better army. but do not out right slander an army. im tempted to start an army with whoever people say is the worst just to win with them. so far ive been tau all the way and through had and close matches i have still prevailed, doing as tau do and striking where needed to gain victory...just sacraficing those i need to (not so tau like) but its adapting an older army wth newer rules

@HijiriOni - agreed. i agree alot. but also by playing in unconvetional ways i have gained success in smaller fights to. but always a close and greuling match. not to mention luck of the dice rolls lol

@Khanaris - yes agreed, but as i already said and quoted above give them the warnings they need. but not by saying things along the lines of 'don't bother until a new codex comes out'. say they will be a struggle, say their advantages/disadvantages and say that one day a new codex MIGHT come out and things will be easier but until then, and we dont know when it will be, it will be hard.

im not saying we should encourage people no matter what. im having a go at those who just tell people not to bother at all without giving any true advice
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WHO SAYS TAU ARE OUTDATED!?
Tau Vs. Space Marines 4-W 1-D 1-L
Tau Vs. Chaos Marines 3-W 1-D 0-L
Tau Vs. Tyranids 0-W 0-D 1-L

Tyranids Vs. Chaos Marines 3-W 0-D 0-L
Tyranids Vs. Space Marines 2-W 0-D 0-L
Tyranids Vs. Tau 1-W 0-D 0-L

Va're'x Campaign Battle #1 ---Va're'x Campaign Battle #2 ---Va're'x Campaign Battle #3 ---Va're'x Campaign Battle #4 ---Va're'x Campaign Battle #5 --- Va're'x Campaign Battle #6
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Old 22 Apr 2010, 21:04   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: A rant to 'Nay Sayers' when introducing newbies!

Seriously Raving Bonkers... Have you even heard of the shtlk key on your computer? Capitalise your posts.

Also I agree that people should play the way they want to. I have been playing necrons for ages and I can guarantee if I turned up as a newbie and said, "I want to start necrons" lots of peopel woulod have told me to wiat. But I play them and I still find them fun.

People should do what they want, that is the joy of 40K. If everyone followed their advice there would just be a whole bunch of bandwagon riders.
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Old 22 Apr 2010, 21:28   #10 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: A rant to 'Nay Sayers' when introducing newbies!

Sorry about the caps.

Necrons are another force I plan to build one day. Repetative looking troops maybe, but the feel of the army is in the eye of the beholder. Personaly an army of metalic mass manufactured machines, or however 'crons come to be, would look awesome. Its why for an upcomming battle i have 72 fire warriors, for the pure beauty of seeing truly disiplined gun formations backed by railguns. And my Tyranids, all equiped with scything talons. Dark armour, dark skin, but white bone and scythes washed lightly with black. As a horde it looks awesome. As an army, you have to be prepared for alot of deaths before the Hoard reach the enemy, but thats why they call it a hoard so theres many more where that came from lol.
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WHO SAYS TAU ARE OUTDATED!?
Tau Vs. Space Marines 4-W 1-D 1-L
Tau Vs. Chaos Marines 3-W 1-D 0-L
Tau Vs. Tyranids 0-W 0-D 1-L

Tyranids Vs. Chaos Marines 3-W 0-D 0-L
Tyranids Vs. Space Marines 2-W 0-D 0-L
Tyranids Vs. Tau 1-W 0-D 0-L

Va're'x Campaign Battle #1 ---Va're'x Campaign Battle #2 ---Va're'x Campaign Battle #3 ---Va're'x Campaign Battle #4 ---Va're'x Campaign Battle #5 --- Va're'x Campaign Battle #6
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