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Note on Secrecy pg92 Quesiton for those good with rules.
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Old 06 Apr 2010, 23:17   #1 (permalink)
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Default Note on Secrecy pg92 Quesiton for those good with rules.

I have the following questions based on "Note On Secrecy" pg 92 of the rulebook.

1. MUST the army list be revealed to the opponent prior to the game?

2. How long exactly are you allowed to hold out on revealing your list?

3. This is probably the most important question I have. How is this handled in YOUR area? And I do not mean Tournament wise, but in standard play with your group of friends, local store or community etc.



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Old 06 Apr 2010, 23:43   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Note on Secrecy pg92 Quesiton for those good with rules.

There's always been two ways I've seen it played.
It neatly answers both your first questions if one is preferred over the other.


1) Yes, the list must be revealed before the game.

Or

2) It must be revealed after the game, or in partiality when a unit (usually in a transport or wargear question) is revealed and questioned.



As for your last question. We play casual by the same tournament standards around here unless otherwise mentioned ahead of time. One of these tournament rules is complete disclosure of lists and units in vehicles before the game.

AFAIK, this tournament standard (not necessarily casual play standard) extends to all of Florida, Alabama, Georgia, and the major Chicago tournaments (from what I've been told). Two years ago, roughly, this also was the standard in Louisiana last time I was around there during tournament time.
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Old 07 Apr 2010, 00:25   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Note on Secrecy pg92 Quesiton for those good with rules.

Quote:
Originally Posted by enderwiggin
There's always been two ways I've seen it played.
It neatly answers both your first questions if one is preferred over the other.


1) Yes, the list must be revealed before the game.

Or

2) It must be revealed after the game, or in partiality when a unit (usually in a transport or wargear question) is revealed and questioned.



As for your last question. We play casual by the same tournament standards around here unless otherwise mentioned ahead of time. One of these tournament rules is complete disclosure of lists and units in vehicles before the game.

AFAIK, this tournament standard (not necessarily casual play standard) extends to all of Florida, Alabama, Georgia, and the major Chicago tournaments (from what I've been told). Two years ago, roughly, this also was the standard in Louisiana last time I was around there during tournament time.
It's the standard or was at And Books Two, Little Wars, Rising Pheonix, and Galactic Games, Lan-o-War in Louisiana. In the brb if your playing a tournament than it's full disclosure.

But in a friendly game than you don't have too. Which IMO silly if you're practicing for tournaments. But if you decide to go this route than both players have to agree and should revel thier list doing and or after the game. Especally if there is no wysiwyg. But than you start getting the teleporting through rhinos syndrome.
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Old 07 Apr 2010, 00:27   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Note on Secrecy pg92 Quesiton for those good with rules.

Chico brings up a really good point.

WYSIWYG must be in full effect for secrecy to work. Otherwise the list has to come out for verification usually.
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Old 07 Apr 2010, 03:35   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Note on Secrecy pg92 Quesiton for those good with rules.

I'm curious to know how many people would actually DISAGREE to revealing list after deciding first turn?

Seems most people are worried about nasty surprises during the game but not that many concerns that i've read have been about setting up.

So would you find the game any less enjoyable if you were to reveal the list after rolling off for 1st turn? So that you got to see the list while both sides deploy their units?

Call that question #4. Depending on the responses, I may infact change this method of doing things.
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Old 07 Apr 2010, 04:11   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Note on Secrecy pg92 Quesiton for those good with rules.

Usually, we show lists before we even roll off for sides, much less the first turn. :-\
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Old 07 Apr 2010, 05:03   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Note on Secrecy pg92 Quesiton for those good with rules.

At my club, the kids are usually still learning the rules to their armies - and full disclosure keeps things simple.

In regards to that note on p92. I don't see any difference between disclosing what units are in what transports and showing them your list anyway. It's easier to hand them the sheet where they can tell what is what.

At tournies it tends to be full disclosure (unless your opponent and yourself both agree not to).

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Old 07 Apr 2010, 06:05   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Note on Secrecy pg92 Quesiton for those good with rules.

On my side of Missouri, enough of us have played enough to know what each unit is and what does what. Only when the "counts as" ruling comes into play do we actually question what the unit has and what it is. As such, pretty much everyone at the store likes to keep things WYSIWYG, so revealing of lists usually isn't really needed. I usually like to explain to my opponent what each unit is and what upgrades they have as I deploy them (mostly to remind myself what all the unit has).
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Old 07 Apr 2010, 10:07   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Note on Secrecy pg92 Quesiton for those good with rules.

I don't see a problem with showing a list after setup.

The only problem I have about transports is to have a system you can show to prove what guy is in what transport. It's annoying that for example the enemies fire dragons never be in the transport you blow up and only his gurdians keep popping out.

I don't mind added realism which would make sense I wouldn't know who is in the transport but even the book says you should let the player know what's in the tranport. If you marked them 1 and higher or differant to represent differant squads than I wouldn't have a problem with it. Some rhinos have the troop, elite, hq, or what ever symbols on them.

When I just play I don't look at the list anyway besides a quick glance. If I'm playing a ds army than I would like to know if I'm going against mystic though.
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Old 07 Apr 2010, 10:32   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Note on Secrecy pg92 Quesiton for those good with rules.

In my LGS we play with army lists, but reveal them only on request. However, when i play most people i only ask to see a list if i want to see something in particular or think they have too many units in their list (or too few) or after the game if i think their army was played really well.
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