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Tau & Eldar alliance...again
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Old 22 Mar 2010, 19:16   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Tau & Eldar alliance...again

This has probably been discussed to death all over the internet, but the most recent topic I found when searching 'Tau Eldar' on these forums were three years old, so I thought I'd make a new one.

Leafing through the GW site I found the Conflict Scotland 2010 event:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/co...p?aId=15100006

And you could see the rules pack for it on the bottom of the page or at:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_..._Rulespack.pdf

Now what intrigued me most is page 4 of the PDF alliance table, claiming that Tau and Eldar are 'Trusted Allies' What the deuce?

At first I thought this was simply for gameplay purposes; all races need their own trusted allies for balance and whatnot. But clearly not; Chaos, Dark Eldar and Orks can barely work with other races and the Necrons and Tyranids can't even ally with another faction!

Now I might have missed something since I didn't have time to read over 12 pages of text and I don't have the luxury of the Apocalypse book (which may detail alliances) but is this a new occurrence? That the Tau and Eldar are trusted bros?

*Fistbumps*
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Old 22 Mar 2010, 19:20   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tau & Eldar alliance...again

Right, two ways to look at it.

The first is to say "Yes, because the Eldar made the Tau for some mysterious purpose." This tends to piss off the Tau players, who don't like the idea that their race are a bunch of tools.

The second is to say "no, that's bollocks - Eldar hate everyone." but that ignores Xenology and the revelations therein.
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Old 22 Mar 2010, 19:34   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tau & Eldar alliance...again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wargamer
The second is to say "no, that's bollocks - Eldar hate everyone." but that ignores Xenology and the revelations therein.
Considering the fact the thing's out of print, it's possible that GW themselves are saying that - I've certainly not seen anything else by the same author. But if that were the case, why have them as Trusted Allies?

I'll offer a third option, and posit that perhaps first contact between the Tau and the Eldar went more swimmingly than any other such encounter in the 40k universe. The Tau may even view the Eldar as friends, but you can bet the Eldar don't view them the same way. Also remember that even the so-called "Trusted Allies" fight each other sometimes.

Aha, and thanks to double checking with the Apocalypse book, I can offer a fourth option. In the Apocalypse book, Eldar and Tau are not Trusted Allies. The only Trusted Allies the Eldar have are other Eldar, which, to my mind, is the way it should be. It's possible that the pack for Conflict Scotland has a misprint, or that they were utilising some form of plot (I've not read up on that particular event, my internet's being slow today) that meant that, for this particular event, the Tau and Eldar were closer than they would normally be - not an unreasonable assumption, during the Eye of Terror campaign, considering the stakes and who the enemy was, it would be plausible to consider the Eldar and the Imperium Trusted Allies - though certainly only for the duration of that particular war.
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Well I'd rather not play the game at all than play it like they did! :P
Crikey! This crazy clown causes commotion like the coming of Christ. Contained in a circle corrupted by crackheads and carnal cravings, he creates no concession to callous cheaters concentrating on nought but cock. Certainly, still a curious and cordial cavalier in the countenance of crazed cads, curs and creeps who condemn courtesy as something corny. No cloud could collapse his crushing crescendo of comical crowing and crimson coiffure. This conjecture on culture comes circumlocutive, consequently...

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Old 22 Mar 2010, 19:53   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tau & Eldar alliance...again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Circus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wargamer
The second is to say "no, that's bollocks - Eldar hate everyone." but that ignores Xenology and the revelations therein.
Considering the fact the thing's out of print, it's possible that GW themselves are saying that - I've certainly not seen anything else by the same author. But if that were the case, why have them as Trusted Allies?

I'll offer a third option, and posit that perhaps first contact between the Tau and the Eldar went more swimmingly than any other such encounter in the 40k universe. The Tau may even view the Eldar as friends, but you can bet the Eldar don't view them the same way. Also remember that even the so-called "Trusted Allies" fight each other sometimes.

Aha, and thanks to double checking with the Apocalypse book, I can offer a fourth option. In the Apocalypse book, Eldar and Tau are not Trusted Allies. The only Trusted Allies the Eldar have are other Eldar, which, to my mind, is the way it should be. It's possible that the pack for Conflict Scotland has a misprint, or that they were utilising some form of plot (I've not read up on that particular event, my internet's being slow today) that meant that, for this particular event, the Tau and Eldar were closer than they would normally be - not an unreasonable assumption, during the Eye of Terror campaign, considering the stakes and who the enemy was, it would be plausible to consider the Eldar and the Imperium Trusted Allies - though certainly only for the duration of that particular war.
The third option is possible, but the Tau aren't that gullible any more, they've learned not to make victory parades for Necrons, parley with greenskins etc. More importantly, I think 'trust' requires an element of mutuality. Then again, I am a bit of a peacenik, a trait probably not suited for 40k.
If not, then it would be possible to represent this in gaming terms of Tau trusting the Eldar but the Eldar distrusting the Tau. Then again, this could overcomplicate things in a tournament setting.

Regarding the fourth option I don't think both the Imperium and the Eldar were that desperate that they wouldn't fear a shot in the back in the neck every time they turned around. Again, the word 'trust' is key, as they certainly wouldn't regard each other as comrades, justifying any tabletop negative modifiers even with the ridiculous stakes in play.

This could be a hint of some plot development in the next Tau codex. It wouldn't be unreasonable, as Tau are regarded as 'honourable adversaries' for the Ultramarines for more than a few times now. Would it be a stretch to far to extend diplomatic relations to the space elves?
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Old 22 Mar 2010, 19:59   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tau & Eldar alliance...again

Still, the Eldar's view on everyone else is completely alien to the other races - the Eldar obsession with their survival as a race coupled with their quite astonishing farseeing powers means that they have a massively different take on developments in the galaxy than, say, humans or Tau. Don't forget that Tau have a rather short historical "event horizon", having only discovered space travel a few millenia ago. Humans have a longer history, but the individual short-livedness somewhat prevents again a bigger historical contect. Eldar, on the other hand, have a long historical "event horizon" - not just as a society, but "personal", as well - they're actually BEEN there, and there are probably still a few Eldar around who have witnessed the fall and seen the Emperor (or his Primarchs) in person (though I'm still not sure on Eldar life spans); in addition, they also see the future - or rather, different variations of this. This perception of the galaxy alone breeds a completely alien kind of mind; add in their arrogance and their struggle for survival, and you can see why they have a difficult time trusting anyone than themselves.

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Old 22 Mar 2010, 20:17   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tau & Eldar alliance...again

The best way to think of the Eldar is this.

To the Tau, the Tau Empire represents the accomplishments of untold generations; six thousand years of history all cumulating in this grand empire.

To the Eldar, the Tau Empire is nothing; a blip on existance. The Eldar would see the Tau as nothing more grand and impressive than an infestation of cockroaches, admirable only in their utter refusal to be crushed.
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Old 22 Mar 2010, 20:26   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tau & Eldar alliance...again

And here's a brief explanation on how the Eldar view their "allies" - any allies of any kind that aren't other Eldar - that I've used a few times on this site.

When Eldar ally with another race, they do so only to the extent that I ally with my modelling clippers when taking bits off the sprue, or with my paintbrush when painting a model. They are very useful tools that serve a necessary purpose, but they are not my friends, they do not come drinking with me, I do not introduce them to my girlfriend as mates I've had for years, we never go to catch the latest movie together. And if my modelling clippers snapped or lost their edge, or my paintbrush got too frayed to be of any use even as a drybrush, I'll be heading right down to the store to get a new one with nerry a second thought for my poor, lost modelling implements.

THAT is how the Eldar view the other races of the galaxy.
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Originally Posted by Restayvien
Well I'd rather not play the game at all than play it like they did! :P
Crikey! This crazy clown causes commotion like the coming of Christ. Contained in a circle corrupted by crackheads and carnal cravings, he creates no concession to callous cheaters concentrating on nought but cock. Certainly, still a curious and cordial cavalier in the countenance of crazed cads, curs and creeps who condemn courtesy as something corny. No cloud could collapse his crushing crescendo of comical crowing and crimson coiffure. This conjecture on culture comes circumlocutive, consequently...

You may call me Circus.
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Old 22 Mar 2010, 21:28   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tau & Eldar alliance...again

But you take care of your tools don't you? You make sure your brushes don't lose its point, wash after use and keep it in a clean dry container for storage. Hell, if you've got a ridiculously expensive brush, you might even show it off to your girlfriend.

But yeah, I get the points made here. I can't imagine the Eldar playing nice other than to further their own goals. But what they've done here is a quirky blip though.

Or a typo.
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Old 22 Mar 2010, 21:30   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tau & Eldar alliance...again

Circus' analogy is a little off.

A better example is using a spider to catch flies; once the flies are dead, you crush the spider. If the flies somehow kill the spider anyway, you've lost nothing and the flies are probably weakened.

The Eldar do not form alliances, they just pit their enemies against each other in ways that favour the Eldar.
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Old 22 Mar 2010, 21:35   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tau & Eldar alliance...again

Plus Eldar will help another race to ensure they survive, they will fight alongside space marines for example against orcs to put them down. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, but the alliance would be short lived because once the threat is put down the Eldar would turn around and slit the space marines throats.
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