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Ruins and Jet Packs
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Old 27 Aug 2009, 11:31   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Ruins and Jet Packs

Hi guys,

So I'm no veteran, but I've been playing for about a year now and a new player has managed to wreck my understanding of jump infantry and ruins. The problem that started this involved Crisis suits, ruins and a failed leadership test. It was his contention that the 3D6 fallback was a straight horizontal line back to the table edge, while a number of locals sided with my diagonal view. This was the problem, page 83 describes how jet infantry and bikers treat movement, but it's not at all clear to me for falling back.

I generally roll for moving in difficult terrain into and within terrain to avoid dangerous terrain tests for my crisis suits. But following page 83, do I get to place jump infantry on any level if I take a dangerous terrain test for each model? If a ruin is four stories, I can jump over it (as long as it's only 6 inches wide or less) so could I land on any level?

To my common sense I try to play it close to reality and not abuse the units (by placing large impassable or ruin terrain for me to jump back behind or into). However, it was the contention of my opponent that per page 83 that I place a unit anywhere along that path despite height and so my fall back would place me off board. I'll have to include photos soon to demonstrate.

Anyone able to clarify this?
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Old 27 Aug 2009, 11:58   #2 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Ruins and Jet Packs

i dont know every rule, and my book is being borrowed, but i do know that jump infantry can go over anything. even if the wall is 38 inches tall, if you can get across width-wise, you can go over it.
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Old 27 Aug 2009, 13:12   #3 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Ruins and Jet Packs

If a unit is falling back, they should (by common sense, anyway) try to do it in by the most direct route possible. Using Rules As Intended, this means that they would have to move along the ground, or whatever level is closest to the ground, at all times, while falling back. The only reason to place them at a higher altitude would be if the lower levels were, for some reason, impassable.

That's my reading of the situation at any rate.

NB: If you were moving normally using jetpacks (ie: not falling back), and took the dangerous terrain test, then you could place the suits anywhere within the ruin within 6" of their starting point. This includes moving up as well. If you're using GW ruins, note that each level 3" high, so in order to move up 6" (two levels), you would have to be directly under the point you wished to move up to.
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Old 27 Aug 2009, 15:26   #4 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Ruins and Jet Packs

I agree 100%. I'm still not sure what this player wants. I'll try explaining it to him again.
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Old 27 Aug 2009, 17:15   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Ruins and Jet Packs

it's towards player's nearest board edge right? so in a spearhead deployment type, you'd have a right angle shaped board edge which the falling back unit falls towards yes?

Do units fall off the table in 5th ed?
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Old 27 Aug 2009, 17:39   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Ruins and Jet Packs

I'm fairly certain a Fall Back move must be directly towards the closest point of their own table edge.

Also, Jump Infantry always falls back 3d6", as they will always use their packs when falling back. This should be in the Jump Infantry section of the rulebook under the heading "Morale".
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Old 27 Aug 2009, 17:46   #7 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Ruins and Jet Packs

I think they would go around it, staying close to the ground, like all other units. The rules only state that the difference between falling back Infantry and falling back Jetpack infantry/bikes/jetbikes is the distance. Afterall: a bike squad falling back would not be able to go over the building, and it goes 3D6".

And somewhere it says that units falling back do not take difficult terrain tests but continue to take dangerous terrain tests... dunno if that's relevant at all.
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Old 27 Aug 2009, 17:51   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Ruins and Jet Packs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shas'el Ahab
The rules only state that the difference between falling back Infantry and falling back Jetpack infantry/bikes/jetbikes is the distance. Afterall: a bike squad falling back would not be able to go over the building, and it goes 3D6".
I don't have my book with me, so I suppose I will have to take your word for it. I know that in 4th it stated that Jump Infantry fell back 3d6", as they used their packs, and that this meant that they could move over terrain if they had enough movement to do so, and had to make dangerous terrain tests if they ended their movement in it as normal. Is this no longer in the rules?
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Old 27 Aug 2009, 18:06   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ruins and Jet Packs

Jetpack Infantry cannot choose to take a longer path toward the board edge. If jumping over a building or jumping onto a building gets them to the edge faster then that is what they have to do. All units must choose the shortest path toward the edge of the board. And don't forget that Jump Infantry fall back 3d6 rather than 2d6 because they are assumed to be using their jump capability in the withdrawl.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shas'el Ahab
I think they would go around it, staying close to the ground, like all other units. The rules only state that the difference between falling back Infantry and falling back Jetpack infantry/bikes/jetbikes is the distance. Afterall: a bike squad falling back would not be able to go over the building, and it goes 3D6".
The bikes go 3d6 because they are bikes and bikes move faster than some guy on foot. A jetbike would be a more apt comparison and they can and must move over terrain such as buildings if it gets them to the edge faster.
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Old 27 Aug 2009, 20:10   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Ruins and Jet Packs

My memory fails me here but I don't remember a "Move towards your board edge rule" in 5th for fall backs.
I only remember a "Units must move in a straight line to the highest distance possible" rule.
Jumpers would use their jump pack and are therefore able to jump over terrain too.
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