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1+ saves?
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Old 17 Jun 2005, 12:15   #1 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default 1+ saves?

Can you actually have a 1+ save for a character in 40k? i know you can in fantasy

But if i gave a model something that made its armour save 2+ and then gave it some more wargear that boosted its armour save by +1 would it result in a 1+armour save?
then only meltas or somthing double his strength could kill him (or if it ignored armour saves but then just give him invun save)

this is really buggin me
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Old 17 Jun 2005, 12:27   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1+ saves?

No.

Besides, even a 1+ armour save would fail on a 1 (this is a universal constant in GW - you can never auto pass any tests unless it specifically states that), as is the case in Warhammer Fantasy Battle. You'd just need an AP1 weapon to negate the save.

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Old 17 Jun 2005, 12:33   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1+ saves?

The Hive Tyrant can get a 1+ save. Ask a Tyranid player (like Hive Lord) how.
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Old 17 Jun 2005, 15:10   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1+ saves?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandmaster jhrovii (back in 1 day)
The Hive Tyrant can get a 1+ save.* Ask a Tyranid player (like Hive Lord) how.
Errr...no we can't...we can only get a 2+ Save with either the psychic power or the Extendard Carapce Bio-morph...even if it was a 1+ save it doesn't matter, a 1 always fails. ^-^

A 1+ save in Fantasy exisits because there are many weapons and attacks that lower the armour save taken...but a 1 is always a fail... :
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Old 17 Jun 2005, 16:08   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1+ saves?

Well, if it were possible (which it may be..), a 1+ armour save would have its benefeits. For example. RandomGuyBob's Hive Tyrant is leading the charge. I shoot him up with a guided Starcannon (Str 6, AP 2) or three, inflicting a total of 5 wounds. With a 2+ armour save, he would simply die (unless he had an invulnerable save). With a 1+ armour save, he would still be able to make his save, albeit still at 2+.
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Old 17 Jun 2005, 16:13   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1+ saves?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandmaster jhrovii (back in 1 day)
The Hive Tyrant can get a 1+ save.* Ask a Tyranid player (like Hive Lord) how.
I'm glad to know I'm your first choice Tyranid player Jhrovii, but seriously, dont ask me. *I don't really know the rules too well.

Quote:
you can never auto pass any tests unless it specifically states that
I'm sure you are right, but do you have a page reference for that? *(I had a quick look through, and couldnt see it)

I know that a 2 on a leadership test is an auto-pass, but I wasnt aware of any other rule like that.

But seriously, i believe you if you say it can't save on a 1 (as long as you prove it )


Muddy, sounds like a good idea to me.
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Old 17 Jun 2005, 16:51   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1+ saves?

Urgh...proving it. That'll be tough, since I haven't got a clue where I read that. I think it's just one of those universal rules that doesn't even have to be said.

Infact, the only page I can think of that'll have a reference like that would be in the 2nd edition rulebook (I'm sad...I still know those rules off by heart).

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Old 17 Jun 2005, 19:43   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1+ saves?

Here, I'll clear up the argument for you guys.

The Argument for 1+ save on Hive Tyrant goes like this:

*Hive Tyrant has a 3+ save. (Page 35)
*Extended Carapace gives +1 to the armor saving throw. (Page 32)
*Biomorph Enhancements replace the basic statline. (Page 32)
*Hive Tyrants can be given Warp Field, which gives the creature a 2+ saving throw. (Page 31)
Therefore, if you give a Hive Tyrant a Warp Field and Extended Carapace, then it should get a 1+ save.


Why the argument does not work:
Because Warp Field is NOT a Biomorph Enhancement. It is a Hive Mind Power. Therefore, it does not replace the basic statline. Therefore, when you take Extended Carapace, it modifies the basic statline save of 3+, not the save granted by the hive mind power. Therefore, a Hive Tyrant with both Extended Carapace and Warp Field would have a 2+ save from two different sources, which is not a useful combination.
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Old 17 Jun 2005, 20:23   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1+ saves?

There havent been any 1+ saves at least since the start of 3rd edition. 2nd, maybe, it was sort of like WHFB back then.
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Old 17 Jun 2005, 20:23   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1+ saves?

1+ Armour saves do not exist. Upon the day they do, I will beat to death anyone who has a model with a 1+ save.

WFB is another matter, where it is possible to have a 1+ Save. However, WFB uses very different armour save system, thus it is fair.

We all know you meant 1+, so I've fixed it. - H
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