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Need a clarification
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Old 20 Jun 2009, 09:54   #1 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Need a clarification

Alright, I guess I need this explained to me better since I don't really play the game often enough to get it down, and it comes up in each game. I think I'm just using a 4th edition rule here but I might be wrong...

Anyway, an example situation: a unit of broadsides wants to fire at a defiler, but there's a squad of pathfinders in between them. The broadsides are tall enough to easily see over the squad of pathfinders (or at least let's assume they are for this scenario), and they don't obscure the defiler at all. Will the defiler get a 4+ cover save because of an "intervening unit"? Because I was under the impression that only similarly sized units would do that...like a fire warrior squad shooting at a target behind a pathfinder squad, they're the same height so obviously they're obscuring the target, but if something is tall enough to see over them then it shouldn't have a problem? Or is that an old 4th edition rule like I thought and in 5th edition the height of the models doesn't matter?
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Old 20 Jun 2009, 10:11   #2 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Need a clarification

With true line of sight, if your broadsides can see over the unit of pathfinders, so that the defiler is not obscured, then the defiler is not in cover. Even if the defiler is partly obscured by the pathfinders (including being easily seen within the gaps), i believe it would still have to be at least 50% in cover to benefit. To my knowledge, walkers don't get the same cover rules as infantry.

I don't think it gets a save from pathfinder heads covering its feet. I could be wrong; i've never really had this issue crop up. Enemy vehicles don't generally last long enough to be obscured against tau... har har.
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Old 20 Jun 2009, 10:38   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Need a clarification

Well, your opponents don't roll as well as my brother does apparently. Or you don't roll as badly as I do, either way. :P

What if it were infantry then instead of a defiler? Would it matter if I could see over the intervening squad?
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Originally Posted by Redbeard
Knowing the rules is not WAAC. Bringing tough lists is not WAAC. Acting within the scope of the rules is not WAAC.
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Old 20 Jun 2009, 10:42   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Need a clarification

For infantry to infantry, Broadsides are tall enough that positioned up to a certain distance, Fire Warrior-type troops will not block their vision.
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Old 20 Jun 2009, 11:05   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Need a clarification

You can always draw line of sight through your own squads so it gives no save.
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Old 20 Jun 2009, 11:27   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Need a clarification

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Originally Posted by Unholy Harbinger
You can always draw line of sight through your own squads so it gives no save.
You're confusing 'own squads' with 'own squad'. That rule only allows a model to fire through members of the unit that model is in, not through other units of the same army. Cover rules on page 21 clearly say that intervening squads, both friends and foe, grant cover.

@Sid: If you were targeting an infantry squad and the pathfinders had their heads just obscuring the feet of the infantry squad, that squad would be in cover. An infantry model is counted as being in cover if any part of it is obscured, or any part is in area terrain, but vehicles need at least 50% obscured or in area terrain to get cover.

If the intervening squad isn't obscuring the target from your broadside's TLOS, then no save is given. P22 BRB if you're wondering where i'm coming from.
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Old 20 Jun 2009, 16:01   #7 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Need a clarification

Just to reiterate what Shas O Behavva said, if half of the models in the enemy squad are even slightly obscured (even if just up to their shins are blocked from view by your pathfinders), then they would benefit from a cover save.The rule is designed to be "intentionally generous," so it doesn't take much for infantry to get a save. Vehicles on the other hand (even walkers) have to be 50% obscured, so in the situation you described the defiler wasn't even close to getting a save.
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Old 20 Jun 2009, 16:17   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Need a clarification

Actually against a Defiler it takes alot more then "Firewarriors" to block LOS enough for a cover save, even with troop through troop to defiler, as it's a vehicle it requires "at minimum" 50% model coverage to get a cover save, your troops are definately not tall or wide enough to cover 50% of a defiler even if you had a line of them shoulder to shoulder.

Maybe if it was troops firing through broadsides that were shoulder to shoulder it'd get enough cover.

Monstrous Creatures and Vehicles follow different cover rules then troops
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Old 21 Jun 2009, 09:23   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Need a clarification

They wouldn't have to be shoulder to shoulder in the line mind you; the gaps between each model are still 4+ cover.
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Old 21 Jun 2009, 17:59   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Need a clarification

Only when Shooting at a troops unit, not a monsterous creature or vehicle. They only get any cover at all if more then 50% of the model is covered based off True Sight, that's including in or behind area terrain to.

If more then half the thing is visible, no cover, regardless of what's covering it, unless theres another special rule at play...like smoke launchers.
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