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Vic trips
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Old 04 Jun 2005, 09:55   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Vic trips

I got back from the GW in victoria and I got a few questions.

- I drop a ordnace template down on some poor SM, can he remove modles not under the template.

- What is the deal with the AC, legal, updated, ect

- Whats the deal with fireing from a single squad, can you fire all your bolters, kill my gun drones, then fire the missile, or is all of it resolved one sqaud at a time.

Page numbers would be nice, I hate it when some jerk ass makes up a rule and just because hes been at it for so long everbody listens to him. Because people play the game for ages doesnt mean they're always right.

When I told the person I was playing that he got lucky(It was against my AC, and we know how tanks work in WH 40k)here was this one prick who said "No, its called blowing up a tank"
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Old 04 Jun 2005, 10:08   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Vic trips

-Well, in the 3rd edition, no, but in 4th, yes, so long as the models are within the range of the firing enemy model. So, if a squads in a line and the man at the end is hit by a Frag at 46", anone who is 50" from the guy with the rocket can't be removed.
-Armoured Compnay? Grey area, really needs opponents permission and the rules with you IIRC.
-A squad must fire all it's weapons at the same target(s), and fire can be resolved in any way you like. for example, you might choose to have 2 squads of guardians mass-fire all 80 shuricat shots at once (if you have big hands!) and then fire their support weapons after... assuming anythings left alive!

If you are ever in doubt about a rule, check it or ask a staffer.

I think that was just a slight retort, BTW, not anything serious.
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Old 04 Jun 2005, 16:05   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Vic trips

Our Good Doctor covered it pretty well, though I have a little something to add for clarity.

Quote:
I drop a ordnace template down on some poor SM, can he remove modles not under the template.
Page 30 in the BGB, has ordnance firing different from blast weapons, however they both use the same rules for removing causalties, which is that you can remove any models from the squad, not just the models that were under the template because it prevents "snipering" specific models, such as squad leaders. The only hindrance to this, is as the Good Doctor stated, that the shot could only reach various models due to maximum range (though with ordnance, this should probably never come up as a real problem).

Quote:
What is the deal with the AC, legal, updated, ect.
Before, the Armored Company was titled "Experimental" in Chapter Approved. However, now, under revised rules that are available via PDF download for Free from GW's website (here), they are indeed a playable force as a chapter approved army. The difference is that they are only tournament legal in tournaments which specifically allow such chapter approved armies to be used. Currently there is no reason that your opponent must have your consent to play armored company, other than you simply may wish not to. Also, be prepared, because the armored company will be official in due time and you will see it in tournament settings for sure!

Quote:
Whats the deal with firing from a single squad, can you fire all your bolters, kill my gun drones, then fire the missile, or is all of it resolved one sqaud at a time.
On page 22 of the BGB, when you are shooting, a single unit has a legal target and only that unit fires. You roll to hit with all of their weapons. You may split up the rolling for separate weapons (such as bolters rolled separately from a missile launcher) but that is merely to represent that the missile launcher is not a bolter shot so that the wounding rolls will be different. However, in all other respects, once he has rolled to hit with all of the legal weapons able to do so from the squad, that is when you roll your armor saves if applicable, all at once, but separated for the different kinds of wounds. And in that case, you would immediately remove a single model to the casualty caused by the krak missile because there is no armor save allowed, then you would roll your normal armor saves against the bolters afterwards as you have an armor save against those. Page 24 in the BGB explains this in detail: You remove models that do not receive an armor save first (such as the casualty to the krak missile) and then you make armor saves and remove casualties from the majority as normal.

So - for clarity: One unit shoots at one target. They roll to hit with all weapons in that unit (separating the different kinds of shots). You then remove casualties that receive no armor save first. Then you roll your armor saves that are applicable and remove casualties from the majority as normal. It is all resolved at once.

In your example, he cannot kill your drones with the bolters and then fire a missile into them. That is against the rules. He fires all the bolters and the missile together. You would remove a single gun drones to the krak missile (assuming it's a krak missile, if it's a frag missile then nothing changes), then you would roll saves against the bolters on your majority of models. If he fired a frag missile and bolters, he would roll them to hit as normal, and you would roll normal armor saves against all of it as you receive your armor saves and remove casualties as normal.

I hope that clears it up, and the pages numbers are there for you to take as reference to your next battle.

Good luck!
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Old 04 Jun 2005, 18:03   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Vic trips

This is what I dont get.

How the heck am I the only right in the store then?!?!

My oppenent dissagreed, the player on the table next to me, two of the staff, the player on the ther table and the two "vet" players.

WTF is wrong with some of these people. Oh, I forgot, who ever has the most people behind him is right, heaven forbid if we accauly had to look something up. Oops, cant do that, because it tanks a hour to look anything up.

Quote:
template because it prevents "snipering" specific models, such as squad leaders.
Wasnt there a rule about that, you cannot target a sargent, indpendent char, ect in a sqaud, if you must place a template over another man in the squad if you dont your oppenent can? Or was that the last set of rules?
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Old 04 Jun 2005, 18:37   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Vic trips

Avor:

Quote:
Wasnt there a rule about that, you cannot target a sargent, indpendent char, ect in a sqaud, if you must place a template over another man in the squad if you dont your oppenent can? Or was that the last set of rules?
In 3rd edition, when you placed a template, if it covered a squad leader you, the opposing player could reposition the template but it had to contain the same number of potential casualties. This no longer exists in 4th edition, because it doesn't matter who the template is over. One places the template to get the most casualties as possible (and for templates, they must have a model under the center hole) and then casualties are simply removed from the squad (not from under the template).

Never trust outriders, GW people who are supposedly vets, or veteran players around you. Trust your rule book. Typically, it's very difficult to find someone who actually knows all the rules well enough to play a real legal game without breaking probably 30% of the rules while playing. Keep your book next to you and you'll have it right every time, though people will probably be angry with it. Veterans generally know the rules less than new players sometimes, because a lot of veterans simply think they know the rules instead of refreshing their reading material to make sure they do (arrogance).

Ask anyone who has had to call a judge over to a table for a rule calling who were ruled poorly because the judge didn't even know the rules and just guessed at it using "common sense" which does not exist in the rules of 40k. You'll get the same response typically that they got tooled. Then they go home and check the rules and are furious to realise that they were cheated and that the supposedly all knowing people were all wrong. That's 40k basically...

Cheers!
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Old 04 Jun 2005, 21:19   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Vic trips

Quote:
Originally Posted by MalVeauX

Never trust outriders, GW people who are supposedly vets, or veteran players around you. Trust your rule book. Typically, it's very difficult to find someone who actually knows all the rules well enough to play a real legal game without breaking probably 30% of the rules while playing. Keep your book next to you and you'll have it right every time, though people will probably be angry with it. Veterans generally know the rules less than new players sometimes, because a lot of veterans simply think they know the rules instead of refreshing their reading material to make sure they do (arrogance).

Ask anyone who has had to call a judge over to a table for a rule calling who were ruled poorly because the judge didn't even know the rules and just guessed at it using "common sense" which does not exist in the rules of 40k. You'll get the same response typically that they got tooled. Then they go home and check the rules and are furious to realise that they were cheated and that the supposedly all knowing people were all wrong. That's 40k basically...

Cheers!
Listen to Mal. he speaks very good sense. I know from recent experience... :'(
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Old 07 Jun 2005, 21:37   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Vic trips

Another question, if he can take causulties on what ever modles he wants, does it apply yo LOS and range?

Even if just a single modle is in range, or not behind a LOS blocking terrain, he can still take another modle in the sqaud.

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Old 07 Jun 2005, 21:43   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Vic trips

Never mind, found it, now I realy have to beat those retards with the book.

They pulled that [Edited] to save a marine with a plasma pistol.

Edit by Tau Online: Please watch the language.
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Old 07 Jun 2005, 22:04   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Vic trips

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avor
Never mind, found it, now I realy have to beat those retards with the book.

I couldn't say it better myself. They do sound like a bunch of losers with the amount of rules they're getting hopelessly wrong - sort them out for the greater good!

And since this does seem to be a situation checking thread - what do you think of this situation:

a bloodthirster is on the board at point x. In the movement phase the bloodthirster is moved back around 12 inches to point y near to a landraider (with the intention of assaulting it (of course!)) A squad of bloodletters is summoned to the point where the bloodthirster used to be at point x and I notice and I notcie that the spot were the bloodthirster is now (point y) looks to be farther away than 12 inches from point x - I quickly measure and find that I think it's more like 15. (Bloodthirsters can only move 12 inches in movement phase.) I didn't notice at the time because we were using a system called initiative battle rules where movement is done roughly simultaneously so I was moving some of my units on another part of the board. What do i do in that situation? It basically comes down to:

the bloodthirster was here
No it wasn't, it was here
(bear in mind that I knew just about exactly where his bloodthirster was because it was horribly close to my wave serpent and I keep careful note of how near nasty beasts are to my precious Eldar tanks.)

The bloodletters weren't any help in showing where the bloodthirster had been because - they'd been summoned after the bloodthirster had been moved to point y so they were summoned to the point where he thought the bloodthirster had been and they'd been moved 6 inches in their movement phase anyway....

What do i do in that situation... :-\
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Old 07 Jun 2005, 22:28   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Vic trips

That so reminds me of this problem



They steal a inch(fig 1), but when you say something they move it between the two places fig 2.

It just supports the idea that most WH40k players have issues.
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