[40kenthusiast]

I'm a tournament player, and I'm sick of seeing lists founder on fundamentals.

Thus, this post, in which I go through the two major questions that confront a tournament list in the 5th edition.

#1: How does my list win a draw-fest if the opponent makes no attempt to win?

Everyone has had a Capture and Control game where their opponent simply sat on their objective (located in the far corner, natch) and shot at them. Maybe they had some fever dream of shooting all of your troop choices out of existence or maybe they were just satisfied with the draw.

This question also applies to a multiple objective mission where your opponent gets more in his zone than you. How do you get over there and contest their objectives?

#2: How does my list win a Kill-Point mission if the enemy does not initiate a decisive engagement?

If the enemy does not move closer to you, and just shoots their heavy weapons at your easy KP's (if you've got any), how do you make sure to win the KP duel?

Obviously, in either circumstance the enemy may take the lead and force you into their dance, in which case you've just got to roll with it, but far too many lists don't even have their own dance, and can't handle an idle adversary. Everyone should have a plan in place, in both KP and objectives, for dealing with an enemy who just sort of sits there and shoots at you, and counter charges when appropriate.

[Zen]

To #1: It's quite common actually. It's easier to sit on your objective and wait it out.

to #2: I've never really played 4th Edition. So, is it the same case with VP?

[CmdrBonesaw]

Originally Posted by Zenai

to #2: I've never really played 4th Edition. So, is it the same case with VP?

VP were awesome. KP not so.

A unit was worth as much VP as its points cost (more or less). If you wiped a unit, you gained the units cost in VP.

Now, with KP, it is possible for a Guard army to wipe the floor with a Marine army, yet loose out on KP because they lost a platoon and two Snipers.

KP are just not "fair" in any sense of the word, clearly favoring Marines (especially thanks to their Combat Squad rule, which gives them some leeway of how many KP exactly they offer the opponent) and other low-unit-count armies (like... Necrons... and... Marines?). I'm still arguing with my friends to re-install the VP-system in our games...

But, as regards on-topic: 40KE, I'm planning to play a Wagon-Rush army. I'm coming to the enemy, no matter what. Problem in MY case is the "home" objective ^^

Cheers,
-Bone

[omegatron]

In 5th ed its blatantly obvious : it's an ASSAULT edition.
(4th ed was the shooty edition)

#1. Best defense is a good offense. I always build list with mobility in mind. Transports, Infiltrate, FAs, wings , DSs. It's so easy to screen and march to assault.

#2. where i used to min/max FOC choices, now I tune it to cost-efficiency. depends on its statline (MEQ or non MEQ) what's the ideal number to field. And I'm seeing the beauty of KPs now that I adapted. It offsets the 'pain' of mulitple targets. now multiple bogeys means multiple KPs.

As much as I can, I employ the hammer & anvil. Fast flanker and a solid battering ram.

[Hyena031]

Mobility regretfully 9 times out of 10 means dedicated transports which means more Kp. Mobility is great for objective based missions but if your opponent is crafty then he can pick off your transports for easy kill points. But on to the original question:

#1 - My Nurgle CSM army uses two winged Nurgle Daemon Princes and a Greater Daemon to take it to my enemy. The Daemon Princes use their mobility to get to their objective as quick as possible. They are resilent and can dish out some serious damage as well. The Greater Daemon can run straight up the board due to his inv save. This puts a lot of pressure on a static enemy especially if you do this launch them on turn 4. That gives them two turns to get into 3" of their objective. Not every army has winged Monterous Creatures though so what else can do this:

1/ Eldar tanks are Fast and are Skimmers which means they can move flat out for 24" can tank shock your opponent off their objective.
2/ Tau Piranhas can are Fast and skimmers as well. They may not be able to tank shock but they may be able to get with in 3". Sensor Spines help with this as well.
3/ Out flanking units can either shoot the enemy holding the objective and or assualt them.
4/ Simply assualting the unit that is holding the objective if done right can pull your enemy right off their objective with the defenders react move. Essentially put your attacking unit in single file with 2" between each model. Now position them in the movement phase so they are exactly 6" (give or take) away from the enemy on the objective. When you assualt only one of your models will make it into base to base the rest just move up. The enemy however must get into base to base with as many unegaged models as possible with a movement range of up 6".
5/ Both Daemons and CSM have LASH attacks to throw the enemy off an objective.

Remember you only need to contest his objective and control yours to win.

#2 - Simple do the same back to him. Make him work for those killpoints. Outflanking units once again come to mind for an enemy that wants to hang back. They are vulernable to outflanking units plain and simple. Tau can deny the enemy Kill points the best with their Positional relay since they can keep units in reseve till the turn 5 essentially. For them thought they need to create isolated units inorder to get killpoints themselves. So keep your units close together and work as a team not individual units. Fast attacking vehicle will also slove your problem as it forces your opponent to deal with them and thus buys your slowing moving units time. Orks excell at closing the ground between them and the enemy. Have a look a what orks tactics and how they get themselves into Close Cbt.

Overall get to know each army especially their strengths and weakness. This will give you insight in how they are going to work and will also show you new ways at accomplishing things.

[Lord Of War]

I've only encountered #1, and since my two armies that I field currently are extremely mobile, this has not been so much of an issue. From my experience when they compact everything onto one area it makes my job a whole lot easier.

[Typhon]

#1. I feild a mobile tau army that features massed FW in devilfish speeding towards my enemy supported by a hammerhead or two, and piranahs. I also feild a guard army that has about 200 guardsmen charging at my enemy (WW1 style :P). Either way I'm moving towards you, and so far the only lists that have posed a problem are highly mobile lists that I just can't catch. By standing still, my tau will A) outgun you (unless your IG) -OR-B) be able to provide the most favourable engadgement for me, where I'll kill you with massed firepower. Against my IG you get two battlecannons and a demolisher cannon pounding you every turn.

I'll get back to number 2 in a second...I have to go...and I'm back.

#2. Simply stated in my opinion KP's are broken. They very much favour armies with elite troops. When playing KP's a fearsome landraider becomes equal to even the smallest squad. I have a Platoon command squad somewhere around the cost of four firewarriors, they kill a landraider 250 pts, but die in the blast. Great, my tiny squad is now equal to a LR. The only way I've found to be able to win in KP with my list is simply to camp, dig in cover, and pound my enemy flat, while repelling counter attacks. check my W/L/T in my sig, the oly losses are usually KP's.
The best list for KP battles in my opinion for IG, would feature 3 leman russes, and multiple squads of stormtroopers, and heavy weapons squads.

[USAFTACP]

It seem the OP has problems with IG, since they seem to be one of the only armies that will sit in their deployment and do nothing but shoot heavy weapons at you.

KP sucks, everybody but SM players know it.

[ct_drummer_boi]

Originally Posted by USAFTACP

KP sucks, everybody but SM players know it.

I loled. Hard. I agree with this though. Playing guard seems to be like trying to run up hill with a cinderblock in each hand. It's possible to make it, but its hard to do it.

[USAFTACP]

Hehe good analogy. I still enjoy playing KP missions, I occasionally win one.