[Angel of Death]

ok im half way though a game atm and a tau player is wanting to shoot over his firer warriors with his crisis suit.

now i though units could shoot over other units, but we cant find the rule, and by the tau players logic if there are caps in squads then your free to shoot many squads though your other squads.

Can you fire over/though your own squad just because the model(not a tank of monstrous creature) is higher then the other or have a line of sight though gaps in the front squad

[Watchdog]

You can shoot through any number of squads. The squad which the firing model belongs to does not count, but any other models in the way give 4+ cover save to the target.

[steck_638]

i havnt pushed this but i thought it was olny if you couldnt draw line of sight through the other squad (like you have one squad of marines on a hill, another on a plain, and they are shooting at an ork squad on a hill, i though that there were no cover saves in that case)

[knightperson]

Originally Posted by steck_638

i havnt pushed this but i thought it was olny if you couldnt draw line of sight through the other squad (like you have one squad of marines on a hill, another on a plain, and they are shooting at an ork squad on a hill, i though that there were no cover saves in that case)

That's the official rule, steck. If from the firing model's eye view you can see all of the unit then no cover save is granted. Normally, this is a two-way street: if I'm claiming a cover save when you shoot at me then you get one when I shoot back, but there are exceptions. A set of short models like fire warriors could grant a cover save to a set of tall models like crisis suits, but if they are close enough the tall ones could see over the guys in the front. This will work at long range, but at close range the angle will become too steep.

Let's see if I can do some ASCII art here...


X
XXXXX
X
X Y Z
X X Y Z
X X Y Z


OK. You'll have to imagine your own lines of sight, but big guy X can "see" over the head of little guy Y, so unit Z does not get a cover save. From the point of view of unit Z, big guy X is half obscured by little guy Y, so X does get a cover save. If unit Z was much closer, then the head of little guy Y would be in the way and Z would get a cover save against fire from the big guy.

[Watchdog]

Originally Posted by steck_638

i havnt pushed this but i thought it was olny if you couldnt draw line of sight through the other squad (like you have one squad of marines on a hill, another on a plain, and they are shooting at an ork squad on a hill, i though that there were no cover saves in that case)

Rulebook, Page 22 - Firing through units or area terrain:

"If models fires through the gaps between some elements of area terrain... ... or through the gaps between models in an intervening unit, the target is in cover, even if it is completely visible to the firer."

[steck_638]

thats what i thought knightperson, so i could put some fire warriors infront of broadsides and still shoot normally

[Droofus]

Originally Posted by knightperson

That's the official rule, steck. If from the firing model's eye view you can see all of the unit then no cover save is granted. Normally, this is a two-way street: if I'm claiming a cover save when you shoot at me then you get one when I shoot back, but there are exceptions. A set of short models like fire warriors could grant a cover save to a set of tall models like crisis suits, but if they are close enough the tall ones could see over the guys in the front. This will work at long range, but at close range the angle will become too steep.

Let's see if I can do some ASCII art here...


X
XXXXX
X
X Y Z
X X Y Z
X X Y Z


OK. You'll have to imagine your own lines of sight, but big guy X can "see" over the head of little guy Y, so unit Z does not get a cover save. From the point of view of unit Z, big guy X is half obscured by little guy Y, so X does get a cover save. If unit Z was much closer, then the head of little guy Y would be in the way and Z would get a cover save against fire from the big guy.

The half cover save metric is only used for vehicles. For infantry, if ANY part of their body is obscured by terrain they can claim a cover save.

Otherwise gretchin would be completely useless for screening orks.

[DarthIbis]

The section on p21 about Intervening Models is, I believe, what you are looking for.
He can, indeed, shoot through a friendly unit, and the target will get the 4+ cover save.

[knightperson]

Originally Posted by Droofus

The half cover save metric is only used for vehicles. For infantry, if ANY part of their body is obscured by terrain they can claim a cover save.

Otherwise gretchin would be completely useless for screening orks.

I stand corrected: any part of the body. Still, the example I used is valid as long as the short screening unit is close enough and the target is far enough away. If the majority of the models in the tall unit can see all parts of the majority of the models in the target unit (over the heads of the screening unit) then they will not get a cover save.

@DarthIbis: As long as they are drawing line of sight over the top of the unit rather than through gaps in between models then p21 does not apply and no cover save is granted.

[Tech_Marine]

reluctantly I must admit knight person is right.
However in doing so you put your men at risk of blast weapons.
Such as... Plas-cans of which my army has numerous amounts of

Hmmm nice tactic by the way.