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Feel no Pain question
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Old 05 Dec 2008, 21:08   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 54
Default Feel no Pain question

So, we've got a debate raging oddly enough between the boyfriend of our Ork player and my buddy who plays Tyranids fighting on behalf of my beloved Tau.


Stems from the following thing:

"Take" vs. "suffer"
For the Orks we have a Pain-boy allowing for the always loved FNP roll. However, FNP states "suffers an unsaved wound, roll a dice"

Ok, keep that in mind when we jump to the pinning rules (see where I'm going with this yet?)

Pinning clearly states
"if a unit other than a vehicle suffers any unsaved wounds from a pinning weapon"


The problem here is that the Ork advocate says that if I made my FNP "save" then its not an unsaved wound, and thus they would not have to roll for pinning, while the Tau advocate is about to blow up the rule book pages to 6x4 foot playing surfaces and highlight the words I listed above.


Can I get your input on this? I hate arguing rules for myself so I've stayed out of this one since it directly benefits me (a great rule to have btw its saved alot of cheese in our group by never arguing your position for yourself, if no one will argue it for you, you're clearly mistaken) but in my personal opinion, the Orks should have to take a pinning test any time they rely on FNP to get out from under a wound.


Thanks for your time!
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Old 05 Dec 2008, 21:26   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Feel no Pain question

this may be able to be solved realtively quickly if the ork player ahd more than 11 orks or if Thrakka used his prophet of the Waaagh since the boyz would then be fearless. However if neither of these were true then I see it as follows:

Tau player shoots Ork squad that has a painboy and inflict 1 wound. Ork player fails his save, but passes his FNP. No wounds are recorded thus no pinning check is required. Look at it from a CC perspective since to determine the winner you count unsaved wounds. If a player passes his FNP then the opposing players gets no points towards CC.
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Old 05 Dec 2008, 21:32   #3 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Feel no Pain question

So even though he has to fulfill the qualifications for taking a Pinning save to be eligible to use his Feel no Pain, you're of the opinion that no actual wounds = no pinning test, correct?
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Old 05 Dec 2008, 21:33   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Feel no Pain question

yes no wound mean that the unit did not suffer an unsaved wounds from a pinning weapon thus it means no pinning check.
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Old 05 Dec 2008, 21:43   #5 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Feel no Pain question

But to be able to roll feel no pain in the first place, you HAVE to suffer an unsaved wound.
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Old 05 Dec 2008, 21:49   #6 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Feel no Pain question

I have explained my opinion on this Cheaterbane and askign your question again does not change my answer. You and your friends need to stop being silly and just carry on.
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Old 05 Dec 2008, 21:51   #7 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Feel no Pain question

Thanks for your help, we're just confused on the exact wording, if you're arguing 'intent of the rules' that makes total sense.

But can you at least see from a straight rules perspective where we got this wrong at?


Either way, thanks for you help on this one, an outsider opinion is always valued.
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Old 05 Dec 2008, 21:58   #8 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Feel no Pain question

I can see how you misinterpreted thsi but your way off baises since pinning checks come after all saves have been made including FNP saves. After the saves are doent that is when the pinning check comes into play.
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Old 05 Dec 2008, 22:01   #9 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Feel no Pain question

AH HA!


Now this makes sense.

If they are applied at different phases this is completely clear, like the chain of effects in magic. You have to roll armor or invul or cover saves, then check for unsaved wounds for FNP, then check for unsaved wounds for Pinning.

Makes a lot more sense for some reason that last bit cleared it all right up, thanks!
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Old 07 Dec 2008, 06:18   #10 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Feel no Pain question

to undergo, be subjected to, or endure <---the definition of "Suffer"

to "Take" a wound...that to me means that, in game terms, a wound was allocated to your miniature. This would be BEFORE you role for whatever special rules you have to avoid SUFFERING the wound.

If you "suffer" a wound.. that implies that you have actually had a wound inflicted on the miniature and are thereby "suffering" from it.

So.. the wording, to me, means that the miniature must actually have a wound inflicted in order for pinning to work.



However..if you look at the description of Pinning in the rulebook.. it states that the concept behind pinning is that the model is taking for from somewhere that it cannot see, and "goes to ground" to avoid it (using the "Go to Ground" rules).

The concept behind Feel No Pain is that the model is so angry/tough/high that they can take a wound and shrug it off. In game terms this is shown by them not having to take the wound at all..even though, realistically, they DID take a wound..it just isnt affecting them.

From that perspective..I imagine the unit would have to take a pinning test even if it did have Feel No Pain, since it is still taking fire from an unknown source.



Or maybe im just over analyzing it.
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