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CC attacks
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Old 01 Dec 2008, 17:52   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 54
Default CC attacks

Quick question as I cant find it in the rulebook (probably hidden somewhere and I don't have the time to search through the stupid thing in one go.....darn work getting in the way.


When in CC, do you have to take all the attacks to which you are entitled?

If I have 2 normal attacks and one for charging on my 10 models, can I just roll the 20? Or do I have to roll all 30?


In case you're asking 'why would you want to?' buddy of mine is trying to figure out how to keep himself locked in CC with a unit of Kroot to avoid getting shot long enough to deep strike his gene-stealers in and shut down my guns.
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Old 01 Dec 2008, 18:02   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: CC attacks

roll all of the attacks which are the same type of weapon at 1 time, then do a different weapons seperate, for example a squad of space marines attack, then the sergeant with a power sword attacks. It just makes keeping tallies of wounds easier.
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Old 01 Dec 2008, 18:32   #3 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: CC attacks

page 37 of the rulebook says
Quote:
Originally Posted by page 37, core rulebook 5th edition
... models with that initiative who are still alive must attack.
Then it goes on the detail that
Quote:
Originally Posted by page 37, core rulebook 5th edition
Each engaged model strikes with the number of Attacks (A) on its characteristics profile, plus the following bonus attacks:
which include assaulting, weapons ,etc.

The only possible catch (which I would consider iffy) is that it says
Quote:
Originally Posted by page 37, core rulebook 5th edition
It does not matter if all the enemies that they were engaged with have been killed - if a model was engaged at the start [of] the fight ... it can still attack.
In case you haven't been reading the Tyranid Instinctive Behavior thread, I'm talking about the wording of "can still attack" rather than something like "must still attack". I'm not trying to start anything, like I mentioned I'm pretty sure you are still required to fight.
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Old 01 Dec 2008, 19:19   #4 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: CC attacks

Eh, that portion is null because of the rule stating they must attack. The part saying "if a model was engaged at the start [of] the fight..." is only clarifying that even if the model is not engaged because the models he was engaged with had died he still gets to attack so long as he was engaged at the beginning of the fight.

However, I'm sure you could interpret the rule to mean that you have to attack if engaged, but if you become disengaged you can choose whether or not to attack. Guh, symantics :-P

I think realistically all models would be fighting as hard as they can; not necessarily to kill, but to not die and if that means wiping out the unit before they intended to then so it goes i suppose.
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Old 01 Dec 2008, 19:24   #5 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: CC attacks

Now that you mention it, yeah, that part saying you must attack when it comes time for your initiative does settle that "can" part. Basically, if you can then you must.
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Old 01 Dec 2008, 20:04   #6 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: CC attacks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanzar
In case you haven't been reading the Tyranid Instinctive Behavior thread, I'm talking about the wording of "can still attack" rather than something like "must still attack". I'm not trying to start anything, like I mentioned I'm pretty sure you are still required to fight.

Sweet, that's what I was hoping.

Possibly the 'can still attack' is if your opponent removes models in base contact first, then its possible if your slower initiative model was using the 'within 2 inches of a model in base contact' as eligible to fight rule, then maybe they couldn't fight anymore correct?


That would be the only thing that springs to mind is since you do model removal per initiative, then its possible that you aren't near and of the 'bad people' to hit when its your turn to swing.
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Old 01 Dec 2008, 20:34   #7 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: CC attacks

That's what the whole sentence is about. It's saying that if the enemy picks off the front line engaged models first that when it comes to the lower initiative models that are no longer engaged with any enemy models they can still attack. Those attacks, like all others, still get allotted to the entire enemy unit. Plus, as WintermuteSwarm brought back into clarity, a previous sentence in the close combat rules says that when a model's initiative value is up to attack, if they are still alive they must attack. So if your enemy cleans out the front line, the lower initiatives are required to still attack. You can't choose not to.
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Old 02 Dec 2008, 19:32   #8 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Default Re: CC attacks

Perhaps it would be easiest to avoid arguing over the rules and simply arrange the models as to minimize the number of attacks that are dealt? Hitting a position with a column, with each model barely within coherency ensures that, even with the six inches of assault and two inches within base to base, only a small number of models are attacking.

It works, too. I rammed a column of Chaos Space Marines into a group of Fire Warriors, hoping to only kill one or two and force the combat to be resolved on the Tau player's turn, when my Champion with a Powerfist and the remaining Marines piled in. I hit him with only fifteen attacks on that charge, and he tested his leadership at only 7.

Of course, he failed it exactly because I wanted him to pass it, but that's life. The principle is still sound.
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Old 02 Dec 2008, 19:55   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Georgia-US
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Default Re: CC attacks

That really shouldn't work all that well, because you have to move a full 6" and he has to move a full 6" back in order to engage as many as possible. It's my personal opinion that any sort of "trying not to do you best in CC" is against the spirit and letter of the rules.
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