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The most tactical army?
View Poll Results: The most tactical army?
Chaos Daemons 1 1.23%
Chaos Space Marines 0 0%
Daemonhunters 2 2.47%
Dark Eldar 15 18.52%
Eldar 22 27.16%
Imperial Guard 5 6.17%
Necrons 3 3.70%
Orks 3 3.70%
Space Marines 10 12.35%
Tau Empire 17 20.99%
Tyranids 3 3.70%
Witch hunters 0 0%
Voters: 81. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 22 Nov 2008, 17:59   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default The most tactical army?

Which army is the most tactial ? Im new in this game and i have never played it.. but I have some orks, painting them and working on army list... but I dont know if i chose right, because what i really like in these types of game is thinking up new tacticas and test them...

I saw about 5 games of orks(vs marines,tau,ig etc) and all ork strategy was about straight running toward the enemy and than assault....
But i read some necrons battlereps. and It looks interesting- teleporting, deepstrikeing, saving warriors because of phase out etc..


thnx for advices
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Old 22 Nov 2008, 18:21   #2 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: The most tactical army?

I think all of the armies have tactics to an extent, but some you can get away with less.

Am not really sure aobut ork tactics i'm afriad, i've never played ork..
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Old 22 Nov 2008, 18:35   #3 (permalink)
lonely tau
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Default Re: The most tactical army?

There is no most 'tactical' army in-game, it all depends on the experience of the player using the army and how they're using that army.

If you're going for fluff-wise though, I think that Eldar would be the most tactical army.
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Old 22 Nov 2008, 18:53   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: The most tactical army?

Also playstyle helps. Tactics actually help all armies get better. Tactics sort of help with experience. Tau have some nice tactics also. Cover also influences tactics. Tactics are more of an improvement to every army rather than armies having more tacitacal to each other.
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Old 22 Nov 2008, 18:58   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: The most tactical army?

I agree on part with both Viking Tau and Jonaqon.

All armies need tactics to be effective, but some depend more on it than others.

For example, Marines are, by their very nature, more resistant to mistakes. Make one mistake with Dark Eldar, and it can be very over very soon.

Orks are difficult to judge in this regard because they come in varied "flavors". You could take the "tidalwave"-approach, and just swamp the enemy with Boyz - simple, yet effective. You could go Ravensquig-style, which is more difficult. Kult of Speed is more difficult, either. So with Orks, it depends n the army you're building.

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Old 22 Nov 2008, 19:40   #6 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: The most tactical army?

I disagree partly with all of the above. Warhammer 40,000 isn't a game based on tactics the way Battlefleet Gothic is. It is a game based on strategies.

Tactics are a responsive form of taking an advantage. Chess is a game of tactics - You go in with know prior knowledge of what will happen, and then make decisions based on the immediate stimuli you face.

Strategies however, are a preconcieved idea. This is all of the planning that you do before a game starts, in the phases of army creation, terrain setup, and deployment. Your army lists are built off of a strategy that you believe will defeat your opponent's strategy. If you make an Ork "Battlewagon Rush" army, your strategy is already predefined - you will use your armor to your advantage to make your opponent's small arms useless, and rush up the table to deliver lots of orks in your opponent's face.

Now, that's not to say that tactics AREN'T involved in the game, but they certainly take a back seat to strategy. Usually the only tactical decisions you make are what to fire at/charge, and when to go for an objective.

That said, all armies are tactically pretty much the same. Armies based more around fast units are proportionally more tactical, and less strategic, but only to a certain, small extent.
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Old 23 Nov 2008, 09:42   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: The most tactical army?

I agree with Ninja Ork. A lot of armies aren't very tactical because they seek to dominate the game by forcing their strategy on the opponent. A horde ork army isn't going to react to its opponents moves, it's just going to roll over everything it can contact. The army will have some specific tactics like keeping a screen of grots out front to give the back units a cover save and to help ensure the orks get the charge.

Drop pod marine armies are similar because they choose the location of the battle and by nature make it a close quarters fight.

In general shooting armies are more tactical than assault armies, and fast armies are more tactical than slow armies.

This isn't to say a slow close combat army doesn't need tactics. I watched a fascinating game between a horde of orks and a mostly Khornate Daemon army. Both armies get massive benefits from charging and it was a delight to watch the way the Daemon player lured the orks into making charges against weak expendable units and then counter charging and annihilating them with his heavy hitters.

A mechanized Eldar can cross the entire board in two turns. They can respond to unexpected flank attacks or deepstrikes more effectively than a marine army. Which is why Eldar strategy tries to expand the game onto a wider front and then use speed to crush a single outgunned part of the enemy army, while a castle of marines is very difficult to shift.

Another concern is that tactics play a very small role in small games. Luck and list design are much bigger factors.
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Old 23 Nov 2008, 13:52   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: The most tactical army?

It's a tricky question to answer.

Some people, like some of those above, think that faster armies are more tactical, because 1) you're in greater control of where the fighting takes place, and 2) you have be precise because the cost of speed is usually that you are outnumbered and mistakes in your placement of units, choice of targets, etc., can be devastating to you.

Personally, I don't think this makes an army more 'tactical'. It certainly requires greater precision, but it's the sort of army that is more determined by strategy, as Ninja Ork describes. Your strategy is always to isolate enemy units, to focus a greater part of your force on a small part of the opponent's in a place where the rest of the opponent's army can't hurt you too badly. Usually you are shooting (Mech-Eldar/Tau, SM bike armies) but sometimes you might be assaulting (Some Dark Eldar, Mech/Biker Orks). In the last turns, you can move further to reach objectives.

All armies should be making decisions about these things to some extent (target selection, awareness of objectives, etc), it's just that for fast armies it becomes all-important, you win or lose by it. So, in a sense, I think fast armies are more tactically limited because the strategy is largely predetermined and you won't want to deviate from it too much.

Another thing you have to keep in mind is that while an army like Eldar might have the most tactical potential with its great variety of aspect warriors, their fragility and high level of specialisation usually means that they are most successful when they limit themselves to a focusing on a particular sort of army and dominate in a particular area. The Eldar codex CAN allow you to use a bunch of different strategies and tactics, but to exploit them all, you might need to buy a large range of their models and put a different army on the table in different games.

(Note: I don't play Eldar and I'm just going off how I've most often seen them played).

If you want an army that is relatively stable (i.e. you can put the same army down for each game) and can at the same time use different tactics and strategies (though they won't excel at any particular one) then what you want is what we sometimes call a 'balanced' army. Sometimes when we say 'balanced' we mean 'not too powerful', sometimes 'can take on all armies'. What I mean is closer to the second meaning, but I would more specifically add that the 'balanced' army I have in mind uses elements that can perform reasonably well in each area of the game - some faster units, some shootier units, some better assault units. Sometimes a unit can be good at (but not excel in) more than one area. For example, a Space Marine can decently handle shooting, being shot, and fighting in close combat (Ork shoota boyz can do that as well, and better, in my opinion).

If this is the sort of thing you're looking for, I would say Space Marines, Chaos Marines, Eldar, and Ork armies CAN be the most 'tactical', providing your army list uses a variety of units. They each have access to units with good shooting, assaulting and speed. Tau and Necron units are generally biased towards shooting, and Tyranid and Chaos Daemon units toward assault.

I won't mince words; this sort of army is NOT the strongest, most successful, sort of army. However, once you get good at the different strategies and tactics they can use, you should win more than you lose. You will have games against unbalanced armies that you will lose and you will not have had much of a chance. Nonetheless, I think these armies give you better long-term satisfaction than unbalanced armies.

Orks can pull this off, so you should be okay. When you post your army lists, just let everyone know you want a flexible list, not a one-trick pony list. Don't go for the green tide of 180 boyz or the kult of speed with all bikers, battlewagons etc.

Finally, I should say your strategy and tactics will depend to an extent on the area you play in, mostly on the most common armies played and whether the community has some official or unofficial regulation of 'power-gaming'. I'm fortunate to live somewhere that powergaming (unashamedly using the most powerful units in armies with the purpose of winning every single game) is frowned upon so I can take a balanced army and expect both to have a chance of winning if I play well and to have fun with using different strategies and tactics.

Karma +1 for thought into post. -FKE
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Old 23 Nov 2008, 14:51   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: The most tactical army?

A tactical army would be an extension of the strategy that you yourself have imparted upon the army itself and it would be one that can maximize on their strengths and minimize on their weaknesses in every battle and never take too much casualties. In addition, a tactical army is one that also enables you to adapt to the flows of battle quickly and thus allows one to use their army in an offensive manner or a more counterattacking element when the need arise. Strategy and tactics differ because for strategy is essentially how you want the entire army to perform as a whole, while tactics is how you use your abilities of your army to the current situation.

Hence this is why I prefer mechanized armies with very solid HQs, Troops and also Heavy Support choices as these are the main units that will be doing most of the fighting and allows one to react to the opponent's actions quickly and/or counterattack an opponent. IN addition, sometimes, you do not need to use your speed at all, as the vehicles will often be a shield of sorts against most enemy fire to your infantry and other units.



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Old 23 Nov 2008, 16:37   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: The most tactical army?

Every player employs a strategy and tactics to some degree or another. They may be crude in nature or highly refined but in the end we all use them both to some extent. Each army though is geared towards certain tactics. The strategy that we employ is generally set out by the mission type since it dictates our goal.

Tactics is defined as: "The military science that deals with securing objectives set by strategy, especially the technique of deploying and directing troops, ships, and aircraft in effective maneuvers against an enemy".

Strategy is defined as: "The science and art of military command as applied to the overall planning and conduct of large-scale combat operations."

From those definitions 40k is a game of Tactics as it is us the players who get to deploy and direct military units agaist an enemy inorder to secure our objectives for a set strategy. Tactics is a subset of a strategy. A strategy is simple the over all plan while your tactics are how you get the job done.

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