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Insists on making lists against specific armies
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Old 20 Nov 2008, 03:23   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Insists on making lists against specific armies

I could rant about this for a couple pages, but to save you time, I recorded our most recent conversation. Names have been changed to protect his identity. In case you can't tell, I'm Fergy.

Fergy says:

thats my point

Fergy says:

we all make 1 list

Fergy says:

and use it

Fergy says:

no options, no picking different lists for different people

Fergy says:

that way we make balanced lists

Steaming Pile of Clams:

will you be able to gaurentee that they use that list?

Steaming Pile of Clams:

and what abotu special weapon?

Steaming Pile of Clams:

i don't want to stern gaurd my command squads

Steaming Pile of Clams:

thats a waste of points

Steaming Pile of Clams:

if i have to take 1 plasma, 1 melta and 1 flamer

Steaming Pile of Clams:

i'll die

Steaming Pile of Clams:

LOl




How can I convince someone that its what tourneys do because its fair, and makes it more fun. PLEASE help me. Making lists to fight certain armies makes the games less fun.
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Old 20 Nov 2008, 03:36   #2 (permalink)
Zen
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Default Re: Insists on making lists against specific armies

:headdesk:

Say make one unit for each job e.g.; Sternguard: Anti-Tank Range. Vanguard: Anti-MEQ/TEQ CCers. Whirlwinds: Anti-Horde Range. Not making one unit too broad of a job.
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Old 20 Nov 2008, 03:43   #3 (permalink)
lonely tau
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Default Re: Insists on making lists against specific armies

The point of the tournament list is to make a list that can go up against anything and perform well.

The point of a tournament is to play said list against at least several other lists of various races to see who ends up to be the most skilled person.

As for the making sure people use the same list thing, you make everybody give you a printed or legible list at the start of the tournament, and then either give people a copy of that, or make each player say what they have in the list before the game.
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Old 20 Nov 2008, 03:49   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Insists on making lists against specific armies

He plays guardsman, I play Tau, raven guard marines, mono tzeentch daemons, and our other 2 friends own 3 armies each as well. He won't listen to reason, I tell him that he doesn't need to make a 'sternguard' aka can take on anything unit, he just has to take an army that compliments everything. I am def. going to make us start making lists and putting them in a pile before who plays who/ what kind of games are decided. My issue is making him understand that its more fair, will be more fun for everyone and is overall BETTER that way.
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Old 20 Nov 2008, 03:58   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Insists on making lists against specific armies

Well if an army was going to battle, would they know every single enemy they are against? NO! So they tailor the army for all comers.


And guard have got a unit for every army...its called the Leman Russ.
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Old 20 Nov 2008, 04:00   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Insists on making lists against specific armies

One of his main arguments is that we will always know what he will take since he has 1 army, and likes to field 3 russ or demolishers. But the flaw in his thinking is that we'll KNOW we are playing him, and not ork, eldar, tau, SM, chaos, chaos daemons, or necrons. I can't get through to him.
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Old 20 Nov 2008, 04:08   #7 (permalink)
Zen
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Default Re: Insists on making lists against specific armies

Just screw him. If he still insist, don't bother. Just wasting time.
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Old 20 Nov 2008, 04:12   #8 (permalink)
lonely tau
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Default Re: Insists on making lists against specific armies

How many people all in all would be in this tournament? From the sounds of it, there won't be all that many but you're all pretty experienced.

Still, don't say it's about ineffectiveness, say that it's about the spirit of the competition, it has nothing to do with making the better list, it's supposed to be about a list that can work against whatever is thrown at it at any given time, and when all of the lists are about the same power it comes down to individual skill with each army.

Any idiot can fire 3 Heavy Bolters into an Ork Mob, but few idiots can find a way to make that quite as effective against Marines. Any idiot can fire 3 Plasma Guns into Marines, but they won't fare as well against Orks. The key is to find the middle ground you're happy with and use a combination of list building skill and playing skill to defeat the various threats that come by, not just cheap, mindless spamming of one kind of unit or weapon.

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Old 20 Nov 2008, 04:25   #9 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Insists on making lists against specific armies

Or let him take the list,a nd all of you take a list entirely different to normal, so as to surprise him. He will learn via hindsight
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Old 20 Nov 2008, 04:30   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Insists on making lists against specific armies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenai
Just screw him. If he still insist, don't bother. Just wasting time.
That, my friend, is exactly how I feel, but is not what I will do. He is wasting my time with these arguments; I, along with the entire gaming world, think he is wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viking Tau
How many people all in all would be in this tournament? From the sounds of it, there won't be all that many but you're all pretty experienced.

Still, don't say it's about ineffectiveness, say that it's about the spirit of the competition, it has nothing to do with making the better list, it's supposed to be about a list that can work against whatever is thrown at it at any given time, and when all of the lists are about the same power it comes down to individual skill with each army.

Any idiot can fire 3 Heavy Bolters into an Ork Mob, but few idiots can find a way to make that quite as effective against Marines. Any idiot can fire 3 Plasma Guns into Marines, but they won't fare as well against Orks. The key is to find the middle ground you're happy with and use a combination of list building skill and playing skill to defeat the various threats that come by, not just cheap, mindless spamming of one kind of unit or weapon.

Fantastic, this is the kind of reply I was looking for. New analogies and different thought processes on the same subject, in the hope of one of them finally getting through his land-raider thick noggin.

Its not a tournament, but we 4 have been playing eachother for 8 years, each adding new armies along the way. I, personally, have played with another group of friends who have waned off the 40k, and I've gone to a local tournament or two, but its 1.5 hours away and I can't do that every weekend.

I have never lost to either of these 3. I'm not here for an ego boost, and I don't want people commenting on this part; it is merely context for what I'm dealing with. They admit that they usually have their heads up their asses, and sometimes don't make the right moves or build the right lists.

I recently started playing mono-tzeentch daemons, and at our last 'gaming session' (an overnight at a cabin, all 4 of us) me and another of our group had a "are you shitting me?" moment. The guard player built 4 lists, all heavy bolters against daemons, all plasma and tanks for sm, and all autocannons for eldar. The last of our group had 2 lists made, 1 with maxed out troop squads (in case of kill point mission) and 1 of split up troop squads for objective based games. We both said hell no, but at that point the game was decided and opponents had begun deploying.

I can't just leave them, they are my pals. I accept that they are idiots and may not bring the competition I would like.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Why So Serious?
Or let him take the list,a nd all of you take a list entirely different to normal, so as to surprise him. He will learn via hindsight
That could work, but he'll probably just quit. He'd assume I'll be using my brand new daemons, but I could easily pull out my tri-railhead list and obliterate his heavy bolter spam. But if I pull out my tau, he'll say no, he won't play. He'll just say he'll get creamed and there is no point.
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