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Splitting fire, then assaulting
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Old 23 Oct 2008, 07:37   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Splitting fire, then assaulting

There are a few units in 40k that can fire at multiple targets. I'm wondering how this interacts with the rule that an assaulting squad, if it has fired before the assault, must assault the target of its shooting.

Quote:
a unit that fired in the Shooting phase can only assault the unit that it shot at
I interpret the matter to be that a unit that fires at multiple targets in the Shooting phase may select which it is going to assault. The case against this, I think would rest on the wording of the individual effects that allow a unit to split its fire. In the case of target locks, for example, the model possessing a target lock may shoot at a different target to the rest of its unit. This, arguably, means that the unit shoots at one target only, while a model within it is excepted from the targeting rules.

Not how I read it, but hey.

In the case of Long Fangs, their rule says the unit may fire at multiple targets.

I'd prefer an interpretation that doesn't privilege one squad or race over another in this regard.

Yeah, I know, one of my examples is a heavy weapons team and the other is TAU, so why bother thinking about assault. I'm not sure how often Long Fangs might want to get the charge, but i'm specifically curious because I'm trying to work out how hard it would be to get a fire warrior team with carbines and EMP grenades to pin an infantry squad and then blow up the tank they were guarding. I think getting the team leader to shoot the tank while the rest of the quad pins down its escort would be hella funny.
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Old 23 Oct 2008, 08:14   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Splitting fire, then assaulting

First, if you're contemplating assaulting things with firewarriors, things have already gone horribly wrong. Anyway, only Tau equipped with the target lock are going to be able to fire at targets other than what their unit fires at, which can only be equipped on Firewarrior Shas'ui, Pathfinder Shas'ui and rail rifle toting members, Stealth Suits, XV-8s, and vehicles (which can't assault). The typical purpose (as I know of) for the Shas'ui to have a target lock is when they also have a markerlight, which is a heavy weapon, so the squad can not move let alone assault. Rail rifles are also heavy weapons so it's the same story. The suits are the only ones that could split fire and then assault... but a situation where all suits in a squad have target locks... doesn't sound very kosher to me, but in that case I would say that the target of the unit leader would be the official unit target to assault.

As for the thing you want to do - gun down a squad and blow up their tank/transport with a grenade - since you can't actually throw grenades, what you state can't be done, however, if you manage to wipe the target squad out in shooting (with carbines) you could then assault the vehicle and use grenade attacks on it assuming the tank/transport is in assault range.

Also, if you mean IG heavy weapons teams when you say "heavy weapon team", they have to fire at the unit's target since, as far as I know, the IG don't have an equivalent to the target lock. (Unless I managed to spend the last year misunderstanding the IG codex)
If you mean like Devistators, I'm pretty sure they all fire at the same thing as well.
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Old 23 Oct 2008, 08:51   #3 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Splitting fire, then assaulting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xeran Van Houten
since you can't actually throw grenades, what you state can't be done, however, if you manage to wipe the target squad out in shooting (with carbines) you could then assault the vehicle and use grenade attacks on it assuming the tank/transport is in assault range.
Why would I have to wipe them out, exactly? I don't think you've understood my question - if I split my fire using the target lock, to shoot the infantry and the tank, can I then assault the tank and blow it up with EMP grenades? The whole point is to assault the tank; sorry that wasn't clear. I assumed everyone would assume I know how EMP grenades work. The firing is a distraction, both in this thread and in the game - I'm aiming to pin the tank's escort so I can run in, destroy the tank, and get away without return fire. And before anyone posts saying there's better ways to destroy a tank, I also know how railguns work. I'm interested in the rules question here. I'm also interested in abusing the pinning rules to make amusing things happen on the tabletop.

To restate: if a squad splits its fire among several targets, by whatever means, does that mean that it can choose an assault target from among its shooting targets? Is there anything in the particular wording of any split-fire abilities that promotes or precludes the idea that this choice is possible?
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Old 23 Oct 2008, 10:05   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Splitting fire, then assaulting

Heh, didn't mean to insult you or anything... I read it literally.

Anyway, to pin the squad and assault the tank while splitting fire with a fw squad, you only get one shot at the unit you want to pin since only the Shas'ui has the target lock. So you're putting your hope on a single shot at BS 3 to hit, wound, and pin. Also, your unit would need a clear path to assault the tank. Meanwhile, the other shas'la are putting 5-11 str 5 shots at the tank, which might be enough to blow it up depending on what it is and what side you hit, but probably won't do anything.

To answer the restate, in the case of the Tau, since only 1 model in infantry units can take it (meaning the majority of the unit is firing at target a) and choose to SHOOT at something else (target b), it would indicate that it only allows the choice for shooting and not assaulting. Since the majority of the unit is firing at the same target, one would reasonably be able to state that was the unit's target and therefore is the target which can/must be assaulted. In a unit of suits, it might be possible to have a choice when splitting fire however.
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Old 23 Oct 2008, 10:49   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Splitting fire, then assaulting

It is my understanding that everything which can split fire, and written after 4th edition, has rules covering who it can assault.

Target Locks specify that the firing unit must assault the target that the unit shot at, and not the separate target that the Target Lock-equipped model fired at.

With We Are Legion, A Lord of Change/Daemon Prince of Tzeentch/Herald of Tzeentch/The Masque/The Blue Scribes equipped with it may assault any of the units they targetted, as stated in WAL's description.

As for a Talos and Long Fangs (the rules for which were both written during 3rd Edition), I have no idea. I would imagine you could assault either unit you shot at, since, by definition, you've shot at it and can therefore assault it.
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Old 23 Oct 2008, 12:27   #6 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Splitting fire, then assaulting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked Thespian
It is my understanding that everything which can split fire, and written after 4th edition, has rules covering who it can assault.

Target Locks specify that the firing unit must assault the target that the unit shot at, and not the separate target that the Target Lock-equipped model fired at.
I don't know what edition my codex is, but it has no such rule in the wargear section. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place. Can you tell me where to find this rule?

My Codex: Tau Empire has no edition information that I can see but is copyright 2005.
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Old 24 Oct 2008, 05:34   #7 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Splitting fire, then assaulting

I'm looking at the codex right now and it says no such thing. P. 28. Looking at the rule I would have to say that if you shot at it, you can choose to charge it. I don't think it matters if you shoot 1 unit or 15. If you are legally allowed to shoot it, then you are allowed to charge it.
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Old 24 Oct 2008, 10:31   #8 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Splitting fire, then assaulting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pseudomancer
I don't know what edition my codex is, but it has no such rule in the wargear section. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place. Can you tell me where to find this rule?
Sorry, my bad. Was recalling We Are Legion's wording rather than Target Lock's wording.

Nonetheless, I don't see any reason why you couldn't charge any of the units youv'e shot at; by definition you have shot at them therefore you may assault them.
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