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Firing At Vehicles/Monstrous Creatures Through Area Terrain/Units
View Poll Results: If space marine B were a Vehicle or Monstrous Creature would he receive a 4+ cover save for being be
Yes, Vehicles and Monstrous creatures can claim a cover save even if not 50% obscured by any shots that travel through the gap between the trees. 0 0%
Yes, Vehicles and Monstrous creatures can claim a cover save even if not 50% obscured by any shots fired through gaps of area terrain AND gaps between intervening units. 4 36.36%
No, they can only claim a cover save if they are 50% obscured by something else. 6 54.55%
No, unless the elements of area terrain(or models from intervening units) infront were only leaving small gaps but still covered 50% of the hull from the firers point of view. 0 0%
Not sure, never had this situation come up. 1 9.09%
Voters: 11. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 18 Oct 2008, 03:21   #1 (permalink)
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Default Firing At Vehicles/Monstrous Creatures Through Area Terrain/Units

Ok I'm a bit puzzled I thought everyone interpreted the rules for granting cover saves to vehicles and monstrous creatures the same way. In that they need to be 50% obscured period in order to get a cover save.

However some believe that they still get cover save if they are BEHIND area terrain or units of intervening models. The rule says that monstrous creatures get no cover save by being 'IN' area terrain, but doesn't say anything about what happens if it's behind.

So look at the following pic from the rulebook and answer the poll question and let's see what everyone thinks. Because I could possibly be wrong and neglected a lot of possible cover saves from large gaps in area terrain and from intervening units spread out infront of me.

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Old 18 Oct 2008, 03:25   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Firing At Vehicles/Monstrous Creatures Through Area Terrain/Units

Your poll fails to address the actual point (again).

They are obscured if more than 50% of them is in the gap. At which point they are more than 50% obscured.

The rules say nothing that would eliminate the cover save from firing through terrain or through another unit. The only thing they eliminate is cover saves gained simply from being within the edges of area terrain as is the case with infantry.
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Old 18 Oct 2008, 03:29   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Firing At Vehicles/Monstrous Creatures Through Area Terrain/Units

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khanaris
Your poll fails to address the actual point (again).

They are obscured if more than 50% of them is in the gap. At which point they are more than 50% obscured.
Well look at space marine B. He's obviously completely in-between the gap. I asked people to use their imagination and replace him with a vehicle or monstrous creature WITHIN that gap. Should I draw a picture of a tank inside the gap to make it any clearer? It's not a problem.
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Old 18 Oct 2008, 03:30   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Firing At Vehicles/Monstrous Creatures Through Area Terrain/Units

That isn't the point. The problem is that the rulebook only removes the save from being within terrain. It does not eliminate the effect of gaps in area terrain or units.
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Old 18 Oct 2008, 03:39   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Firing At Vehicles/Monstrous Creatures Through Area Terrain/Units

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khanaris
That isn't the point. The problem is that the rulebook only removes the save from being within terrain. It does not eliminate the effect of gaps in area terrain or units.
I understand what you are saying and that's exactly why I made this poll because I want to know what the rest of the community thinks. Maybe someone else can enlighten us both on something we may have missed who knows, it's possible. At this point i'm just confused and want to see what everyone thinks. Here's a pic of what your tank (a Rhino) more than 50% between area terrain feature looks like.



So does the Rhino get a cover save?
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Old 18 Oct 2008, 17:29   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Firing At Vehicles/Monstrous Creatures Through Area Terrain/Units

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nezalhualixtlan
Monstrous Creatures and Vehicles are affected by Cover Saves in identical ways:
pg51, Unit Types - MCs: "Cover for them works exactly as for vehicles (see page 62)."

Pg62, Vehicles and Cover - Obscured Tagets: "At least 50% of the facing of the vehicle that is being targeted ... needs to be hidden by intervening terrain or models from the point of view of the firer for the vehicle to claim cover."

Since MCs and Vehicles are benefitting from cover in the same way, you don't get cover just by firing through gaps of an intervening unit Khanaris, as I think that's what you're arguing with regards to the Warriors. It's clearly stated in the vehicle section that 50% of the model must be covered by models, so you would definitely not get cover by means of your "height bar" between the warriors.
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Old 18 Oct 2008, 17:30   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Firing At Vehicles/Monstrous Creatures Through Area Terrain/Units

If we are going to discuss this, discuss it in one thread. I will leave the poll open if you want to check it later.
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