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Rules query on attacks in 5ed
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Old 17 Oct 2008, 20:23   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: toronto
Posts: 999
Default Rules query on attacks in 5ed

Okay this is a weird scenario. After the assaults were completed and the turn ended our models were in the following formation. All models were in base to base with something that was in the orgnal melle and it was a DP and Sorceror attached to a Raptor squad against Nob bikers with a Warboss ...

N
N DP
NNN ->3" WB -> 3"
rrrr S

As you can see both the DP and Sorceror are quite a distance from the other participants in the battle but still in base to base with something. Can the DP wrap his attacks around the whole squad ( a warptime DP is nasty). Can the Sorceror wrap his attacks? Can the Warboss wrap his attacks? Should we have moved the models into coherency despite them, being in BtB with models from the melle? I have an idea of what should occur but frankly we were not 100% sure at the time and we just made a decision so we could continue play in the friendliest of manners.
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Old 18 Oct 2008, 04:46   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Default Re: Rules query on attacks in 5ed

I couldn't entirely follow your description, but I can give a general answer. In a multiple melee, each model that is in base-base with models of only one enemy squad must allocate his attacks to that squad. If he is in base-base with models from both, or in base-base with neither but within 2 inches of squadmates in base-base with each then he can split his attacks. The adjacency stuff is worked out at the start of combat and doesn't change based on which models are removed. If a model could swing at either unit when combat started, his powerfist at initiative 1 can still hit either enemy unit even if there's nobody in contact with the powerfister by the time he gets his turn.

I'm assuming DP here means drop pod? If so, the drop pod is considered a separate unit from anything else, so only a model in base-base with the drop pod or within 2 inches of a squadmate who is in base-base can swing at it. Same goes for the nob biker.
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Old 18 Oct 2008, 04:58   #3 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: Rules query on attacks in 5ed

This is actually not too bad, since there are Independent Characters involved.

If the Sorcerer and Warboss are only in base contact with each other, they only fight each other. IC's can still only distribute attacks onto units they are in base contact with.

The Daemon Prince can only attack the Nob Bikers. But he can also hurt the other Nobs over on the other side of combat. This is because they are the same unit, and in 5th Edition models don't have to be engaged to be removed as casualties.

Same thing with the Raptors. Those Nobs in contact with them must attack them, but the return attacks can technically kill the Nobs over by the Daemon Prince.

Weird, but that is 5th Edition for you. I might consider house-ruling them as three separate engagements within the same combat by that point.
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Old 18 Oct 2008, 10:32   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Rules query on attacks in 5ed

No, no. You guys don't get it. The OP is asking if kills can transcend the 2" coherency rule. Due to combat casualties, the Nob squad is no longer in coherency, but cannot move due to being in base to base. Can the Daemon Prince (or DP - not Drop Pod) attacks on one half of the squad kill members in the other half, that he is not in btb with.

My opinion on the matter is that you can. Page 24 and page 39 of the rulebook are explicit in stating that casualties do not have to come from those in line of sight or in range, and can come from anywhere in the squad.

Assuming the Nob squad survives, it will of course have to use its next movement phase to move into coherency.
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Old 18 Oct 2008, 13:01   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Rules query on attacks in 5ed

Quote:
Assuming the Nob squad survives, it will of course have to use its next movement phase to move into coherency.
Yes but if they are in BtB with the Raptors already or with the DP are they allowed to move out of BtB in order to gain coherency after the end of the first mellee ? Should the DP and Sorceror could not have moved towards the Raptors ( this would have left the Nobs on the right side and the Warboss isolated and no longer in BtB and the Nobs surely cannot move during the opponent's turn. Should we move the Nobs at the beginning of their turn despite being in BtB with an opponent?

We actually allowed the DP to wrap his attacks around to the Nobs on the far side and considered the WB and Sorceror a seperate engagement in the end. We did not move any the models into coherency.

We had fun though and I do not think it affected the outcome of the game at all.

DP -Demon Prince
WB - Warboss
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Old 18 Oct 2008, 13:48   #6 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Rules query on attacks in 5ed

When I wrote "Assuming the Nobs survive" I meant after they had killed all enemies, and were now unengaged though still out of coherency.

When locked in base-to-base contact, no-one may move, even if out of coherency. Page states that coherency must be restored in their next movement phase, unless unable to move (pinned is the example given, but locked in melee works too IMHO).

If the Warboss was not in contact with the Raptors he cannot attack them; likewise, if the Sorcerer is not in contact with the Nobs he cannot attack them. Note, however, that the Warboss is still considered attached to the unit as Independent characters can only leave a unit in the movement phase (and thus will need to move to regain coherency if they kill the Raptors, Sorcerer and Daemon Prince) and the same goes for the Sorcerer and the Raptors if they win.

As stated before, there is no reason not to allow the Daemon Prince to wrap his attacks around.
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[table][tr][td]Regards,
MT.[/td][td] [[/td][/tr][/table][hr]What's an abelian group with an associative, distributive secondary operator and the power to corrupt mortals?
[spoiler=Answer]The One Ring![/spoiler]
[hr]
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