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Disembarking and moving all out
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Old 23 Aug 2008, 16:43   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Disembarking and moving all out

Moving all out says that the vehicle cannot shoot, embark passengers, or disembark passengers if it is moving all out. Then what happens to the passengers if the vehicle is wrecked while moving at these high speeds? Would the destruction of vehicle cause the passengers to very safely exit the blindingly fast... falcon? Would the passengers be stuck in the vehicle because they cannot disembark due to the excess speed? Would the passengers make an emergency disembarkation move because their first attempt of jumping from a speeding and crashing vehicle could not be accomplished fast enough? (it would be hard to determine the vehicle suffered a critical hit and exit the vehicle if the occupants are holding on as it accelerates to top speed.)

Thank you for your answers.
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Old 23 Aug 2008, 17:23   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Disembarking and moving all out

I haven't read 5th ed but i'm guessing they are entangled or DIE!
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Old 23 Aug 2008, 17:33   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Disembarking and moving all out

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper King
I haven't read 5th ed but i'm guessing they are entangled or DIE!
Please refrain from wild speculation in a rules discussion.

As for your question, allow me to quote the rule you're talking about:
Quote:
Passengers may not embark onto or disembark from a fast vehicle if it has moved (or is going to move) flat out in that Movement phase. -p.70
The only case where this causes a problem is if the Falcon (for example) were to be destroyed during the Movement phase where it moved flat out. Furthermore, this is only relevant if the Vehicle is Wrecked, for if it Explodes then the passengers do not disembark, but are instead placed where the vehicle used to be.
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Old 24 Aug 2008, 19:41   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Disembarking and moving all out

Sorry but If your cars hurtling at 100mph down a motor way and it get hit by a missile launcher and is wrecked then I'd assume you'd die.
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are space elfs. Of course their boots never get dirty, their stuff won't get dirty, their weapons won't get dirty, their hair won't get dirty, the aspect warriors won't get dirty, and their women won't get dirty - which is also why they are a dying race. ^-^
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Old 24 Aug 2008, 20:42   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Disembarking and moving all out

and to follow up the chain of consequence, it states that, in the event that a transport is wrecked:

Quote:
Any models that cannot disembark are destroyed.
[pg 67]

Simple as that. If the transport is moving at break-neck speeds- then wipes out... well, it will be proven to be truly break-neck speeds... :P
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Old 24 Aug 2008, 21:04   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Disembarking and moving all out

You are correct, Calaban, but only if the transport is wrecked during the Movement phase in which it moved Flat Out, as that is the only time that they cannot disembark (besides the other reasons, such as the embarkation points being blocked by enemies). The only instance that I can think of this happening is during a Ram. An odd thing to note, however, is that if it Explodes, then the passengers wouldn't necessarily die. That is, they don't Disembark; they are just placed where the vehicle used to be.

@ Sniper King
Likely, but that has no bearing on the rules.
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Old 24 Aug 2008, 22:33   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Disembarking and moving all out

Additionally, pg 70 states:

Quote:
Passengers may not embark onto or disembark from a fast vehicle if it has moved (or is going to move) flat out in that movement phase.
So, this 'may not' is the same as 'can not' with regards to passengers trying to get out or a crashing fast transport... and they are doomed. While there is some snarky elbow room to argue that enemy shooting occurs no longer in 'that turn'.. and thus the passengers may disembark if forced to do so... that is snarky and a bit too shady form of rules lawyering.

If >>I<< were given liberty to red line edit the above quote, It would be as follows:

Quote:
Passengers may not embark onto or disembark from a fast vehicle for one round if the vehicle has moved (or is going to move) flat out in that during its movement phase.
But ah, well.. here's hoping that GW will contact me for proof reading in the future... and make me not have to work ever again- as I would be truly busy for many many years... ;D

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Old 25 Aug 2008, 01:07   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Disembarking and moving all out

It's not snarky or shady at all. The rule is quite explicit. What your opinion on what should happen doesn't change the rule. This isn't even a grey area. I don't see any room for misinterpretation when the rule is right in front of you. If you disagree, please explain, but stay within what the rules are, rather than what you think they should be.

Also, a 'round' isn't a defined game term, so your red pen would certainly create confusion!
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Old 25 Aug 2008, 01:42   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Disembarking and moving all out

Let me just be clear on this:

What I considered shady rules lawyering is detailed below. If this is not what is being postulated in the devils advocate stance then by all means disregard it.


Your opponent goes first, therefore your turn1 is after his turn1
  • During your [latter half] of turn1, you move a devilfish with a multitracker flat out (24" still! Take THAT ork buggy!!), and even go so far as to state that "yes, if those passengers are forced to disembark thus turn, they would all be a nasty smear on the countryside- as per pg 70, final paragraph
  • Then during your opponents turn2, he zaps the devilfish with a lascannon, and gets a "immobilized" result. The skimmer that moved flat out is destroyed, as per pg 71, para. 8. He congratulates his devastator squad for its "13 birds with one stone" shot...
  • but you [the devils' advocate, not YOU] smirk and state that the Passengers are NOT auto killed, and instead all survive and must merely take a pinning check, as per pg 67
  • your opponent look as you confusedly, and says 'but that transport moved flat out.. and page 70 says...
  • you cut him off by snarkilly saying "...says if it moved flat out that turn.. it moved flat out on turn 1, this is turn2!! so HAHA!"
  • your opponent; already thinking that you are an asshole, tries to argue that "by that argument, then that immobilized result wouldnt auto wreck it either!"
  • and you smugly state that "they are worded differently, so are not handled the same!
  • your opponent angrilly reviews pg 70, para 12, and pg 71, para. 8, all on the same page spread of the book, and sees that the rules are indeed worded differently... and privately avows to never play you again.

.. and that is the shady rules lawyering I was referring to- whereby not going first you get to ignore dead passengers within destroyed fast moving transports due to enemy fire.

And that's just plain wrong.. and I actually feel a bit dirty just by thinking it through! :P
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Old 25 Aug 2008, 01:59   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Disembarking and moving all out

Well, first off, a Devilfish can never move Flat Out - its speed isn't changed by a Multi-tracker, it just can fire as though it were Fast. : :P

It's not about going first or second. It's about the phase. Read the rule carefully.
Quote:
flat out in that movement phase.
As soon as "that movement phase" ends, the passengers are no longer forbidden from disembarking. That is, as soon as you move from Movement to Shooting, the passengers will disembark if forced to.

I get what you're saying, but your example is seriously flawed. But this isn't some hidden exploit - it should be as plain as day to anyone who looks. Furthermore, it isn't situational; it's not as though who goes first has any bearing on the rule. Finally, if you politely and kindly point out where your opponent has mistaken a rule, the only reason they could be sore is if they are hurt by the outcome.

Playing by the rules is not rules lawyering.
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