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Do Army Lists Have a Point?
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Old 22 Aug 2008, 20:13   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Do Army Lists Have a Point?

Well, do they?
You have to think for a moment. The point system is designed to allow players to create armies that will be evenly matched and have a roughly equal chance of winning, remembering, of course that certain board layouts or scenarios will favor certain armies. So the question is, because equal points SHOULD mean an even chance of winning, is there any reason to spend any extensive amount of time on writing the perfect army list? Your first instinct is probably to say, "Yes, of course there is!", but that may not be true. From what I have seen, most people will develop tactics, based on what enemies they will face, etc, and then write a list based on that. However, what if someone were to just randomly throw together a few units and develop tactics based on what the army is composed of. This is what a real world general would do, because of limited resources (although he would not have a 2000 point limit :). I know that there are some things in an army that have a slightly better value than others, and some wargear can be made pointless when combined with other selections, but shouldn't such things even themselves out?
I am not exactly sure that the point of this is, except that if any army could become a viable force, more people might use the models they thought looked cool. So, any thoughts on the matter would be appreciated, or feel free to tell me that I am completely wrong.
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Old 22 Aug 2008, 20:19   #2 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Do Army Lists Have a Point?

Unless I'm facing a specific opponent, I make my list so it can stand a chance against everything thrown at it, it'll still struggle against certain things.

Some people can only make lists from the models they own and more often than not their army isn;t as capable as a thought out army :P
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Old 22 Aug 2008, 20:39   #3 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Do Army Lists Have a Point?

Hey hey.

Also, if you stick with one solid army list, you get to know how that army works, and how to use it more efficiently, at least that's what I find.

I always write a solid list for each of my armies. This is mainly due to me not wanting to change my army every game, and to stick to my fluff and/or theme. I also find that it helps me limit my buying for each army.

But everyone has their own style of doing things, and in my style, yes, army lists do have a point.
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Old 22 Aug 2008, 23:52   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Do Army Lists Have a Point?

I believe also the problem is not all choices can kill every target for example 25 firewarriors is not a Fair fight for a 250 point land raider. Making army lists also may not work if someone does not like the way. Also the game is not perfectly balanced and the game designers are not gods. It makes some sense if the game was balanced better but it is not. I mean your idea is theoretically possible but hard to pull off. Also some things are better at taking out things and form a vital role. Example some one that thinks wings on a chaos HQ looks stupid cannot run with out wings viably in the real world.
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Old 23 Aug 2008, 00:12   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Do Army Lists Have a Point?

If everything was balanced it would be boring :P
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Old 23 Aug 2008, 01:00   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Do Army Lists Have a Point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timjim
If everything was balanced it would be boring :P
and we would fight a lot less marines...
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Old 23 Aug 2008, 02:13   #7 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Do Army Lists Have a Point?

Yes, army lists have a point. In general, games are won before the first turn starts - based entirely off of the terrain on the board, how things are set up in deployment, and which army list has the advantage over the other. A crapspackled army randomly thrown together should never win, and in practice that is proven to be true.

Whoever decides that working on their army list is a waste of time is someone who will never be victorious. While they may believe their list is more "fun", being beaten into the ground with astounding predictability loses its fun quickly, for both you and your opponent (because eventually, everyone wants to actually have a challenge).
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Old 23 Aug 2008, 02:47   #8 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Do Army Lists Have a Point?

Well an eldar list with nothing but dire avengers is going to have a hard time coming up with tactics against an armored company list...

Anyways, as long as your list is well rounded and can deal with anything, the list will work out fine.
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Old 23 Aug 2008, 08:10   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Do Army Lists Have a Point?

Quote:
From what I have seen, most people will develop tactics, based on what enemies they will face, etc, and then write a list based on that.
You come from the viewpoint of an army list from the wrong prospective.

Most vetran gamers, especially with competative play under thier belt where they cannot change their lists, will build a list that represents thier prefered style of play. It be effective at dealing with a little bit of everything. armies work because of how some units support others, without that, just taking a mishmash of random units does not an effective army build.

Tailoring lists to beat a specific opponant each time you play if both boring and irritating. your in effect trying to stack the odd in your favor each time you play somebody different. it doesn't really take any skill on the table top to play a mission if you have totally built your entire army to exploit a certain weakness in your enemies force.

The steps in playing 40K are quite simply
1 strategy-list building, what makes a good well rounded army
2.tactics-how i use those strattegic assets on the table.
3.sportmanship-don't be a tool and you will have many fine fun hours of gaming with your opponants even if you utterly crush them.
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Old 23 Aug 2008, 10:22   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Do Army Lists Have a Point?


I've always found armies designed around making a sizable chunk of a 'Take all comers!' lists redundant to be irritatingly abusive honestly, not to mention deliberately harmful to actually having a good game of WH40K. I'm looking firmly at the Nidzilla and Tank company players but there are other offenders and they will be held accountable for their actions. Effectively what they're doing is bringing a 'Take all Comers' list to trump the other more balanced lists available to other players. They're not tactical geniuses as much as pathetic little shits who value wining the game over actually playing it. I'm not playing the game to give someone an ego trip, so I've no hesitation in telling these people where they can stuff their models when I can.

Destroying these offenders is much easier when you know they're coming, which leads me to the point that it is perfectly fair play for two players who know what race the other is playing to tailor their lists against each other. That's just common sense.
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