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Need advice on running a doubles-tournament.
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Old 15 Aug 2008, 15:22   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: May 2007
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Default Need advice on running a doubles-tournament.

Hi there people.

For a while I have played with the thought of arranging a local doubles-tournament for 40K. As we don't have a in-town GW-store it will have to be arranged in our local game store, and will be quite modest (max 20 players). It will also be the first 40K doubles in our town (as far as I know).

In that regard I have began wondering about rules and how to arrange and run such an event, and I have a few questions for those of you who have arranged or participated in such an event themselves, I will be grateful for any replies to help me get this on the way:

- What would be the natural point limit pr team (I'm thinking two lists of 750 or 1000 points myself, in that way the teams would have armies of 1500 or 2000 points each)?

- Should each of the participants build their part of the army after the force organization chart (ia both must have 1hq and 2 troops), or should their total army (both players lists) follow one FOC (so that they can have only 2 HQ's and 3 Elites among themselves for instance).

- How many rounds should one play (I'm thinking 3 + here)?

- How do one record wins and losses, and decide who is to face who after the first round, also what is the best way to record such results and decide the overall winning team. What about ties and such?

- Should there be a time limit to the games, and what should the limit be if so. Also how do you record win/loss if the game is stopped because of time?

- I'm a little bit worried about getting enough time to run all the rounds and do the setup and all, how much time (approx) should we expect to be setting off for the event ?

- What missions should be played, and who decides? Should each table roll on the tables found in the 5th ed rulebook, or should the arrangers decide beforehand what missions to play? Should all tables play the same mission each round ?

- Is there some missions or rules one should avoid using for such a tournament?

- I guess it's natural that the arrangers set up the tables beforehand? Any advice on setting up the tables?

- Is there anywhere I can find a list of the current codexes for 40K, so that I can make a list of what is legal for play?

- Any other advice, general or specific on running such an event?

Input will be much appreciated folks!

Rune
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Old 15 Aug 2008, 15:26   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Need advice on running a doubles-tournament.

Well first of all I think you should randomise partners. Fluff wise it may not make sense, but it means people won't be tailoring their lists together and they can make blanced lists.

Knock-out tournaments work really well i find.

And with kill-points, don't use them. Use victory points instead. If two ork players come up against 2 marine players and its annihilation, the orks are seriously hurt before the game begins.
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Old 15 Aug 2008, 15:31   #3 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Need advice on running a doubles-tournament.

Well I never did such tournement, but often played double-team with my friends.

-Everyone would usually bring in 1000 points and each player's army had to be legit (so everyone had their 1HQ and 2 Troops) which sometimes brought it to 3 HQ.

-We also managed to play maybe 4 or 5 turn before either we had to call it a quite or one side was done for it....calculate about 1 hour per turn.

-Win\lost were calculated collectively and individually.
for exemple player 1 and 3 are in team A and player 2 and 4 on team B. Team A wins so player 1 and 3 gets more points, but player 1 suffered more losts so player 1 gets more point then him. Ditto for Team b

so
1st place - Player 3(win/least casulaty)
2nd place - Player 1(win/ more casulty)
3rd place - Player 2(lost/least casualty)
4th place - player 4(lost/more casualty)

As I said this was with friends but it could help you.
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Old 15 Aug 2008, 15:41   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Need advice on running a doubles-tournament.

Thanks a lot for bothering to post your ideas folks, please keep then coming.

I'd love from someone who have played a official GW-run event to give a run-trough of how it's arranged and run.

Rune
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Old 15 Aug 2008, 15:42   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Need advice on running a doubles-tournament.

Points-wise I'd agree with 750-1000, any more and you're looking quite long battles.

I'd say both follow a FOC chart each, if they both follow one chart it's a bit mix and match when they have different armies and so could invite broken lists.

Rounds I'm not sure, it'd have to depend on how much time you have.

Not sure on that one.

Not sure on that one.

I'd say roll for each battle individually if you want standard missions but if you want some sort of storyline going then whatever you decide. If you want special missions then that'd be up to you too.

Not sure on that one, however people have been saying that kill points can be unfair.

Not sure on that one, just make sure there's enough room so people can access and walk past tables easily while people are playing so not to knock people and models. A separate eating/drinking/rest area would probably be a good idea too, the mess people make is then all in one area and they can't effect other people's games either, though that does depend on whether you plan on the tournament lasting through lunch/dinner/etc.

It's probably up to you to decide what is legal in your tournament, you could also then set your own specifications, eg; no special characters, limits on total no. of elites/heavy supports/fast attacks/etc for the total of both armies, or whatever you want. You'd have to have a team, or just yourself that can verify the legality of ALL the lists too.

Not sure on that one, though take my advice with a mouthful of salt; I haven't been to any tournaments let alone run one .
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Old 15 Aug 2008, 17:42   #6 (permalink)
lonely tau
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Default Re: Need advice on running a doubles-tournament.

Heya,

Do you know how to run a basic tournament? If you do, all you do is add the list limitations and you give places based on Teams as opposed to based on what percentage of whose army died. This way it's a lot more fair, because for some games you're going to be trying to play the "distraction" army, and the other one will be playing with all of the power, which means that if you're playing the distraction army, you're screwed.

On running the basic tournament, the one I played in was only 1000 points singles tourney, but converting it into a doubles tourney just giving both forces a 750 limit is a commonly shared, and good, idea. From there you decide how you will be playing battles, sometimes these go via tournament points (+2 for winning, +1 for killing enemy HQ, +1 for wiping out all models on the table, etc) and sometimes they'll simply go by who wins the scenarios in the games. Personally, I like to think of the tournament as a connected series of normal games. This means that for each mission you will be playing a different scenario, sometimes it'll be capture and control, sometimes Seize Ground, other times it'll be Annihilation. Personally, I prefer a good mix of these and the old 4th edition scenarios.

Now for advice on running a tournament:

- Be well versed in your rules, that is incredibly important for any disputes that may come up.
- Have extra templates and dice and tape measures, but mark them for the tournament. Wouldn't want people jacking your equipment!
- Have each scenario planned out in advance. If you want to, just roll the missions and deployment right now, and record which ones they'll be. Sometimes if you look on the GW site they have a place to officially sign up for tournaments and they give you scenarios, so you may want to check that out.

Can't really say much past that, make sure you know which system you want to use and stick to it, keep notes on everything you can, etc. In the end you total up the victories by each margin (crushing victory, slaughter, defeat, etc) and either go by that, or give them a certain amount of 'points' to count and etc to decide who's on top. And afterwards, if you have a tie for a position, make them battle it out in a small game!

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Old 15 Aug 2008, 19:17   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Need advice on running a doubles-tournament.

Thanks MalusHunter and Lonely Tau, I appreciate your input.

I have not run a basic 40K tournament before, seeing as I'm still quite new to the hobby (have been playing the game for little over a year now). But I have a lot of event-experience from other games (Heroclix, Horrorclix and Vampire:TES for over 5 years), and have been gaming for most of my life.

I like the concept of tournamant points, Lonely Tau, is there somewhere I could read up on that, or is there more to say about it? How would one determine who faces who after the first round?
Would one use "swiss" rules, so that the best team met the next best team, the third best med the one who placed forth in the first round aso? Or du you just determine random who faces who for each round?

I think I'll be rolling up the missions and deployment beforehand, so that if I run 3 rounds, the tables will be playing the same mission/deployment every round.

for instance first round all tables play Seize Ground/Pitched Battle, second round all plays Annihilation/Dawn of War and so on.

What I'd really like input on is a time limit for the games. If We're to get in 3 or more rounds in one day I suspect we'll have to have some time of limit. If I decide to run a 1500 point tournament would 2-3 hours pr round sound reasonable?

Rune
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Old 15 Aug 2008, 19:25   #8 (permalink)
lonely tau
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Default Re: Need advice on running a doubles-tournament.

Unfortunately I do not know more about the Tournament Points, it was a long time ago (before I joined TO, I think!) If you contact Games Workshop via the website (as hard to navigate as it is) you may be able to find something to do with it. I'll see if I can dig anything up for you on that part though.

On the organization of it, how many teams are you expecting? What we did in our tournament of 7 people was each of the players played against one another in no particular order, but at the end of the day if you hadn't played all of the games you didn't get points for those games you didn't play. This encouraged people to play quickly and smartly, bar a few people who completely lost :P

And are you thinking about entrance fees and cash prizes? That's what we did, pretty much awesome like that, but it did keep a couple of players from coming.
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Old 15 Aug 2008, 20:01   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Need advice on running a doubles-tournament.

Quote:
I'll see if I can dig anything up for you on that part though.
I'd appreciate that very much Lonely Tau.

I'm hoping to get at least 16 players (so 8 teams), and I'm pretty confident that it will happen as the 40K community here have really been attracting a lot of new faces lately

I have decided on a very small fee, that will go towards prices, I hope that will not dissuade anyone from attending.

As for the number of rounds and the time limit, I think I'll go for 3 rounds and two and a half hours pr round.
I also think I'll allow the teams to get an equal amount of turns in if they do not manage to finish the game (so if the time runs out is into the 5th turn for instance, both teams will get to take their turn before ending the game).

Rune
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