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Pinning in 5th edition
View Poll Results: How manny pinning tests to take
Always just 1 7 7.61%
1 for every unit firing pinning weapons 46 50.00%
1 for every weapon type firing in the unit (carbines, rail rifles) 7 7.61%
1 for all wounds per weapon 32 34.78%
Voters: 92. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 13 Aug 2008, 12:17   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Pinning in 5th edition

Hi,

This is a discussion that I found recently on another forum and I'm not sure if has been submitted here so.

We all know that in 4th edition pinning wasn't that good. The chance of pinning a unit was too small to take it into consideration as a tactic. Now in 5th edition there has been a slight change in the rules, they (for some reason unknown to me) decided to rewrite the phrase on pinning.

So now we get that you must immediately check for pinning on wounds caused by a weapon. Note that is plural for wounds and just single for the weapon. Now this rule creates some confusion in combination with 'rolling all dice in one go'. As some say you only get one test as wounds are taken in one go, so is the test.

So my question is this: "What do you think it means?"
Now think carefully about your answer before you post it. There's a lot of fuss around this because RAW it would suggest 1 test per weapon (that causes unsaved wounds).

Greetz

PS: If there's already a post on this subject please excuse me and direct me to it. I tried the search function but only found a post on 4th edition.
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Old 13 Aug 2008, 12:53   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Pinning in 5th edition

You take wounds/suffer casualties from a pinning weapon, you must take a pinning test as soon as the squad causing the pinning is done. Whenever I played 4th you took the pinning test as soon as the squad with the pinning weapon was done firing. Has there been a change?
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Old 13 Aug 2008, 13:04   #3 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Pinning in 5th edition

You take one test per unit firing with pinning weapons (if they wound/kill a model), not one per wound, not one per weapon. You take it as soon as you fail that save.
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Old 13 Aug 2008, 13:10   #4 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Pinning in 5th edition

I believe there is. The wording of the rule has changed and thus how it is played. It now states:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRB p 31
If a unit other than a vehicle suffers any unsaved wounds from a pinning weapon, it must immediately take a Pinning test.
And later in the same rule is something that confirms my suspicion:
Quote:
... going to ground does not protect it against the fire of the pinning weapon that caused the test (or indeed of any other weapon fired by the same unit that phase)
This indicates that the normal rules of rolling everything together are being overruled and thus that you can take multiple pinning tests from one unit.

So unless I'm mistaking pinning has become far more attractive then it used to be.

Greetz
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Old 13 Aug 2008, 13:20   #5 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: Pinning in 5th edition

I tend to agree with my friend above. As soon as a pinning weapon causes a wound, pinning test occurs. It specifies weapon (not weaponS, not unit) so if there is no errata on this, that's the way it should be applied I believe.
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Old 14 Aug 2008, 07:53   #6 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: Pinning in 5th edition

The wording of the rules does seem to indicate it is the weapon that causes the Pinning test, not the unit as it was in 4th Edition.

This means if a unit has six sniper rifles, and inflicts six wounds, it causes six Pinning tests.

Finally! Sniper Rifles can Pin things!
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Old 14 Aug 2008, 15:27   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Pinning in 5th edition

We had that question come up in the shop and someone phrased it as "pin test per pin wound". I took it as given. Now since Pisces_808 just quoted the rules, I would tend to continue to accept this as "pin test per pin wound".

Furthermore, we roll a "save per model". So as soon as an allocated wound becomes unsaved, it forces a pinning check. I think rules as is, are pretty much in the clear ^_^.

Ammm Wargamer ->

You think sniper rifles became useful?! Try Gauss Ordnance Barrage! Ohh noes I just killed 5 guys from your 9 man squad!... Pass a moral check and 5 pinning checks at -2! (-1 for under half -1 for ordnance barrage). hehehehe XD
***Unless they took out them being pinning with -1 check... >_>***

And yes you'd be also right that snipers can actually pin shit now. ^_^

Which also makes pulse carbines from drone squads and rail rifles lot better now... I mean 2 sniper teams can result in about 4-6 pinning checks a turn. If you want to pin some none fearless squad like some heavy support platforms (devastators anyone? ^_^)... you'll do it XD
Hell pathfinders can probably buy a rail rifle or two now just to counter other people's fire supprot thru multiple pinning checks...

Who knows, it might actually add some cool new tricks to the game

Walk Tall everyone!!!!!
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Old 14 Aug 2008, 15:43   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Pinning in 5th edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red_dog
...Pass a moral check and 5 pinning checks at -2! (-1 for under half -1 for ordnance barrage)...
Although not really on topic for this thread I don't believe that there is a morale penalty for a squad being under 50% strength in 5th. edition anymore.
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Old 14 Aug 2008, 16:27   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Pinning in 5th edition

No, Red_dog, I don't think it works that way.

The rules say you take a pinning test when you suffer wounds from a Pinning weapon.

So, if a Sniper Rifle inflicts a wound, you take a Pinning Test.

If a Shrieker Cannon inflicts three wounds, you take one Pinning Test.

Unless the Barrage rules specifiy you take one Pinning Test per wound inflicted, it's just one test.
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Old 14 Aug 2008, 17:10   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Pinning in 5th edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wargamer
No, Red_dog, I don't think it works that way.

The rules say you take a pinning test when you suffer wounds from a Pinning weapon.

So, if a Sniper Rifle inflicts a wound, you take a Pinning Test.

If a Shrieker Cannon inflicts three wounds, you take one Pinning Test.

Unless the Barrage rules specifiy you take one Pinning Test per wound inflicted, it's just one test.
I'm with Wargamer on this. The wording below there is poorly written about going to ground. We know going to ground is done before you make saves, giving you a bonus to your cover save. However, pinning is determined AFTER you make your saves, failure meaning you've gone to ground. What they are trying to do is clarify the procedure by saying that you may have gone to ground but you've done so after you failed your saves, not before the saves.

Bah, it's hard to write what I'm thinking, let me try and expand. The scenario they are, I believe, laying out is a complex unit. I've got 9 Ork Boyz and a Nob and the Nob has 'eavy armor, so a 4+ save, the boyz all have the standard 6+. Say I take 2 wounds and I allocate 1 to my Nob and 1 to a boy. I roll my Nob's save and fail it, that means I then test for pinning and I fail, so I'm pinned. Being pinned means I've gone to ground. Now I have to roll my boyz' save but he doesn't get the +1 cover for having gone to ground.
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