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Skimmers Nerfed in 5e?
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Old 19 Jul 2008, 20:27   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Skimmers Nerfed in 5e?

I've been reading around here, and it seems that a lot of people think skimmers got nerfed in 5e. Why? I see 5e as an improvement, skimmers can't crash from immobilized results unless you moved more than 12", skimmers can now get terrain cover bonuses, whereas in 4th, they couldn't even get hull-down. A cover save of 4+ on fast skimmers is also good, as is the fact that glancing hits can't destroy a vehicle (except for my open topped Raiders... > ) But passengers don't take nearly as much damage now, they don't emergency disembark upon a penetrating hit, they take pinning test v. instant entaglement, they don't even get hurt unless the transport is litterally blown up, and even then, on my open-topped vehicles, the S3 hit still means they take a wound on 4+, so no real change in danger, except that it is much rarer. I struggle to see why 5e should be hailed as anything less than the second coming for fast skimmer transport armies. ???
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Old 19 Jul 2008, 22:13   #2 (permalink)
lonely tau
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Default Re: Skimmers Nerfed in 5e?

In my opinion there wasn't much of a nerf in skimmers, but the thing that people are seeing is that the Auto-glancing is gone, making them a little easier to destroy with proper AT weapons. In my opinion this is counterbalanced by vehicle cover saves.

The biggest problem is with weapons. Now instead of moving 12" and firing, which gets you a normal 4+ cover save now, you have to choose between moving with a cover save, or staying and shooting at the enemy.

All in all, I don't think Skimmers got nerfed, or if you really want to be persistent about it, they did get nerfed, but down to a more "fair" gaming level.
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Old 19 Jul 2008, 22:17   #3 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: Skimmers Nerfed in 5e?

I think they got nerfed a good deal, but I think it needed to happen.

What changed was reliability. Skimmers could stay in the open or run right into the face of the enemy with few ill consequences. Tau and Eldar knew they could only be glanced, and both had ways of minimizing the effects of glances. Eldar more than Tau.

Now, a clean shot from a strong weapon is going to take you down a large part of the time. Enemies who can get close will hit you in close combat more easily, more often, and harder. Glancing hits may not hurt as much, but they are going to be Penetrated most of the time. This is particularly true of Dark Eldar.
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Old 20 Jul 2008, 02:39   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Skimmers Nerfed in 5e?

I personally am happy with 5th's take on skimmers. My Dark Eldar fly around in paper kites that a standard issue bolter can shoot down. The damage table makes little difference, but the ruling for passengers in a crashed raider are improved over last edition. My vehicles have always been for the most part "mobile terrain" as to the certainty of them going down.
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Old 20 Jul 2008, 02:39   #5 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Skimmers Nerfed in 5e?

Heh. Tau skimmers got better, in my opinion. The Disruption Pod is horribly broken at the moment. XD

Well, not really. It's not hard to get within 12 inches of a vehicle.
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Old 20 Jul 2008, 03:34   #6 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Skimmers Nerfed in 5e?

As a person who rarely if ever moved more than 12", I find that 5e works great for me. I use my DE against IG, and if I lost 1st turn, it meant no matter how well I deployed my forces, all my Raiders were shot, and the infantry in them suffered ~50% casualties. I like how terrain can actually save my skimmers now, instead of break-neck speeds that result in more fatalities if you use them for safety and still get shot. So now deployment means more for my skimmers, so I can potentially live to drop off my payload.

I only move 12", as I need to get a Dark Lance shot from each of 5 raiders to stop the next round of 'Russ fire, and my infantry can fleet to the front line fast enough it doesn't matter if they hop off then. So the 24" movement never benefitted me, I can see where some might like to use it, but with my Raiders serving as troop carriers, and my inf. needing to have the armor knocked out or stunned, I can't risk losing a 500pt. retinue to the lack of a 1st turn. Speaking of 1st turn, I like the ability to snatch it out their plans, hehe! >
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Old 20 Jul 2008, 21:30   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Skimmers Nerfed in 5e?

I think the option to shoot OR get moving fast and not both was a good idea, but it really only helps Eldar players.
Tau are up the creek without the ability to move fast.
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Old 21 Jul 2008, 21:29   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Skimmers Nerfed in 5e?

Tau skimmers move up to 12, fire main cannon, call it a good day with our mobile cover
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Old 22 Jul 2008, 22:58   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Skimmers Nerfed in 5e?

i don't own the book yet but from what i hear you have to move more than twelve to get the save.
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Old 23 Jul 2008, 01:17   #10 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Skimmers Nerfed in 5e?

Many people do think of this being nerfed, and quite honestly it has been. Over the years GW has been tweeking the rules and codex's in order to sell product.

I do not like this slant. I do not like having an imbalance of one army over the next. Eldar before the last revision was the army to go up against. Then Kirby and his "wisdom" decided to down grade the army and made them as speciallist units, throwing in Harelies as a "gimme". Now that was fine for 4Th Ed but for 5Th Ed? Pure BS. Another downgrade with that army, and its the nerfing of the glancing rule.

Yes you have to adapt to it but this is one of those things. I have 8000 points of Eldar and I cam quickly change my army list, but this is not WHY I am upset.

Most people do NOT have the money to make serious changes to their army. This only causes more fuel to be thrown on the fire. From a business aspect, you do not alienate your customer base in such a drastic manner. Changes has to be done gradually. All of the rumors and misdirections of information given by various employees within the company does not help their reputation either.

Not all of use have money to burn to make excessive changes to their army lists.

Only time will tell on the long term damage of their policies to their market base.





This is coming from a business perspective.
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