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Some Noob rules questions (5E)
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Old 17 Jul 2008, 13:33   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Some Noob rules questions (5E)

Finally got a real game in using 5th edition, playing with my son. This was actually our first real game of 40K in any edition, and a few quick rules questions came up:

1. I was Tau, he was Orks. The Orks assaulted a unit of FireWarriors, and amazingly they held their ground with just a few models left on a morale check of 3. When units are locked in Close Combat does the next assault combat happen right away on my turn? Or does it wait until the Ork turn comes back? Oddly I couldn't find a reference to this in the rules.

We ruled that the assault continued in my turn. So the fact that my unit stood it's ground worked against me, since I couldn't shoot at the Orks, and then they wiped out the last of my FireWarriors on my turn and were free to move and assault again on their turn. Is this right?

2. What are you allowed to pre-measure (if anything)? We played that you could measure your move -- where 6" would take you, but you couldn't measure your distance to other units or anything like that. We also played that you could not measure firing distances until you declared the attack, and that you could not measure assault distance until you declared what you were assaulting. Is this right?

3. I should probably post this in the 'Tau' section, rather than general, but we ruled that Flechette dispensers on a Devilfish operated after a Crew Stunned result. We figured they fired automatically and weren't really 'weapons' per se. Is this correct? We also ruled that losses from Flechettes did not result in Morale checks, since they happen during Assault (and the rules say don't do Morale Checks during Assaults). But it was a little grey since the rules reference the post-assault morale check which doesn't happen during Vehicle Close Combat.

4. The Orks took a wound on a Storm Boyz movement (using the Rokkits). They rolled a '1' and had to lose a guy. This took their strength from 4 models down to 3. We ruled that this caused a Morale Check (since they lost 25% in one 'phase&#39. Correct?

Overall we really enjoyed the game. Most of the questions we had were answered pretty clearly in the rules. One thing we messed up was that you can't use photon grenades if you 'go to ground' -- it's mentioned in the grenade rules but not the 'go to ground' rules.

Thx -

Geoff
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Old 17 Jul 2008, 13:50   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Some Noob rules questions (5E)

Quote:
Originally Posted by geoffe
1. I was Tau, he was Orks. The Orks assaulted a unit of FireWarriors, and amazingly they held their ground with just a few models left on a morale check of 3. When units are locked in Close Combat does the next assault combat happen right away on my turn? Or does it wait until the Ork turn comes back? Oddly I couldn't find a reference to this in the rules.
Engaged units fight on each player's Assault phases. So your Tau and his Orks would continue the combat on your Assault Phase, and then on his Assault Phase after that. It will continue like that until one of the units Falls Back, or is killed outright.

Quote:
Originally Posted by geoffe
We ruled that the assault continued in my turn. So the fact that my unit stood it's ground worked against me, since I couldn't shoot at the Orks, and then they wiped out the last of my FireWarriors on my turn and were free to move and assault again on their turn. Is this right?
If your Firewarriors had fled, there's a good chance they'd be cut down by a Sweeping Advance. And they'd also have to test for regrouping before they could shoot.

With the new Consolidation rules, he can move 3" after the combat in any direction, but cannot Assault another unit. Therefore, another Tau unit, if not engaged, could shoot at Consolidating Orks, if it were your turn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by geoffe
2. What are you allowed to pre-measure (if anything)? We played that you could measure your move -- where 6" would take you, but you couldn't measure your distance to other units or anything like that. We also played that you could not measure firing distances until you declared the attack, and that you could not measure assault distance until you declared what you were assaulting. Is this right?
This is correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by geoffe
3. I should probably post this in the 'Tau' section, rather than general, but we ruled that Flechette dispensers on a Devilfish operated after a Crew Stunned result. We figured they fired automatically and weren't really 'weapons' per se. Is this correct? We also ruled that losses from Flechettes did not result in Morale checks, since they happen during Assault (and the rules say don't do Morale Checks during Assaults). But it was a little grey since the rules reference the post-assault morale check which doesn't happen during Vehicle Close Combat.
The description does not say that the crew operates the Flechette Dischargers. It simply says that enemy models attacking a vehicle with Flechette Dischargers in combat are wounded by it on a 4+. So Flechette Dischargers will go off even if your crew is Stunned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by geoffe
4. The Orks took a wound on a Storm Boyz movement (using the Rokkits). They rolled a '1' and had to lose a guy. This took their strength from 4 models down to 3. We ruled that this caused a Morale Check (since they lost 25% in one 'phase&#39. Correct?
I'm not aware of any Ork special rules that say otherwise, so I'm going to say yes.


Good luck in your games!
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Old 17 Jul 2008, 13:58   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Some Noob rules questions (5E)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToastMaster
If your Firewarriors had fled, there's a good chance they'd be cut down by a Sweeping Advance. And they'd also have to test for regrouping before they could shoot.

With the new Consolidation rules, he can move 3" after the combat in any direction, but cannot Assault another unit. Therefore, another Tau unit, if not engaged, could shoot at Consolidating Orks, if it were your turn.
I meant that other Tau units couldn't shoot at the Orks in Close Combat. Sorry I wasn't clear -- the issue was that because my few remaining FWs did not run away, the assault finished on MY turn, instead of his -- whereas if the assault finished on his turn I would have gotten to paste him with surrounding shooters.

Just bringing it up because at first I was really stoked that my guys had stood tall, and stayed in combat, but then I realized it was actually not so good for me in this situation...


Quote:
Originally Posted by ToastMaster
Good luck in your games!
Thanks!

Geoff
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Old 17 Jul 2008, 14:03   #4 (permalink)
Nox
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Default Re: Some Noob rules questions (5E)

Ironically, you should always root for your Tau to die as soon as they are assaulted. :
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Old 17 Jul 2008, 14:04   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Some Noob rules questions (5E)

Quote:
Originally Posted by geoffe
I meant that other Tau units couldn't shoot at the Orks in Close Combat. Sorry I wasn't clear -- the issue was that because my few remaining FWs did not run away, the assault finished on MY turn, instead of his -- whereas if the assault finished on his turn I would have gotten to paste him with surrounding shooters.
Ah, yeah. That makes a lot more sense.

In my experience, Fire Warriors are great at not getting the morale result you want. They'll fail when you want them to pass, and they'll pass when you want them to fail.
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Old 17 Jul 2008, 14:11   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Some Noob rules questions (5E)

That is why I won't give my infantry vox casters, I want them to have low LD to run away when assaulted. So that the rest of my army can get to shoot at the enemy on my turn. I can see it now an assault squad standing out in the open infront of my whole army pointing 100+ guns at them, ha ha.
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Old 17 Jul 2008, 16:51   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Some Noob rules questions (5E)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Planet

Quote:
Originally Posted by geoffe
4. The Orks took a wound on a Storm Boyz movement (using the Rokkits). They rolled a '1' and had to lose a guy. This took their strength from 4 models down to 3. We ruled that this caused a Morale Check (since they lost 25% in one 'phase&#39. Correct?
I'm not aware of any Ork special rules that say otherwise, so I'm going to say yes.


Good luck in your games!
Actually as far as I can tell, the new rules do not require you to take morale checks for taking 25% casualties, I've looked on both pages for "morale check", the page for "leadership tests" and the shooting phase.

If anyone can find the bit where it says this can they please tell me because it seems that this has gone.

And anyway, even if it was there, unless they've changed something, the morale check is only triggered by shooting casualties.
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Old 17 Jul 2008, 17:00   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Some Noob rules questions (5E)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TGS the over-ambitious
And anyway, even if it was there, unless they've changed something, the morale check is only triggered by shooting casualties.
But it gets a bit grey there, doesn't it, because Space Marines/Guard can take Morale checks in their own turn if their plasma weapons kill them. That is still shooting though... hmm.

I can't remember but this *has* been brought up before and it applies to Warp Spiders too. I guess it might be one for a FAQ.
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Old 17 Jul 2008, 17:13   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Some Noob rules questions (5E)

Enemy shooting only, I would assume, ignore RAW right now, it is only from enemy shooting...

And it specifically says that for Templar but.... I dont know about that for anyone else.
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Old 17 Jul 2008, 17:28   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Some Noob rules questions (5E)

AfrikA, I love that example. Now, in fluff, the guard wouldnt care for their own.....
They would light up both squads without hesitation. IG mentality always seemed to me
that it isnt "The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bas****
die for his", but rather "We dont care if you live or not, as long as you take some of them with you".

Now, with that in mind.... Ive always wondered why firing into a melee was removed.
Granted that was a loooong time ago. I understand that it may have slowed things down.
But I also think it added a hair of realism to it. Nids being another example: Look at starship troopers,
They didnt wait till the bugs were done killing the dude to start shooting at it.....

Just a thought
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