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Realism in 40k
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Old 28 May 2008, 05:15   #1 (permalink)
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Default Realism in 40k

Since the 5th edition rumors discussion thread was getting a little off-topic. This is the place to discuss the realism (or lack thereof) in 40k.

I, personally, think some people forgot what exactly it is they're playing. 40k isn't meant to be a reality simulator, it's a game based on a fantasy universe where all sorts of crazy things exist. Daemons, gods, aliens, FTL travel, plasma weaponry, anti-grav technology, titans, a race of rowdy fungi whose technology only works because they think it should, etc.

So, in my opinion, arguing that this or that is silly and "unrealistic", and would never happen like that in the real world, is a waste of time. In the real world, wars aren't turn based, no. They sure as hell aren't fair, or balanced. Melee, in most cases, doesn't work anymore in the real world since the advent of projectile weaponry. But in all seriousness, why the hell is this an issue for some people? How can you be genuinely bothered by the act of assaulting a tank, arguing that in reality "the tank would just run them over, gun them down, etc.", and yet be attracted to the game in the first place? Did you really expect a game set 40,000 years in the future to be "realistic"? A game that you likely already knew had crazy stuff in it, like gods and psychic powers indistinguishable from magic?

The Tyranids seem to be a hot topic for debate on this as well. Some people just don't think they belong in their current form. Gods are okay, psychic powers are fine, but a race of super organisms that consumes worlds and employs highly evolved biological weapons, some of them with thick chitinous shells capable of resisting explosive rounds that would blow apart tanks, is no good, it's too "unrealistic". Well sure, if you think of them as nothing more than a modern day crab or insect, if you have no imagination whatsoever, then yeah I guess that could be a problem. But then I'd have to ask why you bothered with 40k in the first place. Tyranids aren't crabs, they're an alien race. If you simply can't accept that, then you need to find a new game, in my opinion. Maybe the whole sci-fi thing is too much for you, there are other games out there, some of them based on historical battles with real tanks and (probably) more realistic rulesets.

A game like this, and science fiction in general, can only really be enjoyed when you suspend your disbelief and just take it for what it is. The game is meant to be fun, you either like playing it or you don't. Those of us that enjoy it aren't stupid, either. Genetically modified superhuman or not, charging into a screaming horde armed with a pistol and a sword isn't a good idea, but it doesn't really matter if it's all that realistic, it makes for some nice cinematic imagery. And the outcome is based almost entirely on how the dice roll at that.

Anyway, 40k was never advertised as the ultimate modern warfare simulator, so I'm not at all disappointed in the "unrealistic" ruleset. In either case, I can totally see a squad of infantry getting the drop on an unsuspecting tank crew and bringing it down with grenades or some other means in combat. They'd have to be extremely lucky to pull it off, but I could see it happening. It can even happen in real life, but it's not justifiable in 40k? :-\
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Old 28 May 2008, 08:24   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Realism in 40k

Hear hear!
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Old 28 May 2008, 08:30   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Realism in 40k

Just for the record though, I can see why some people might be a little annoyed. There are things in 40k that could work a little differently than they do. Like ending a skimmer's move in difficult terrain, and having to roll a dangerous terrain test...okay, a shallow river can be classed as difficult terrain, why can't the skimmer just hover a couple feet over it? And how in the hell can a battlesuit destroy itself by landing in said shallow river at that?

But yeah... :P
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Old 28 May 2008, 15:15   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Realism in 40k

The quote I always use in these situations is thus; people will accept the impossible, but dismiss the improbable.

To give an example, nobody has a problem with the idea of an Eldar Farseer blowing up half an army with a Psychic blast. That's impossible. However, if someone wrote a fluff piece where a human Guardsmen, armed with only an Autogun, managed to take out a battletank by firing through the viewslits at 300 metres, we'd all cry bollocks. This is because we know what a Human can do, we know roughly what an Autogun can do (it's comparable to a real world weapon), and so we know how stupid a shot like that would be.

This is where the Tyranids fall flat on their faces in the eyes of many; the idea they can "hyper-Evolve" is following the Star Trek "Evolution happens instantly with a bright flash of Light to keep Christians happy" path of thinking, which itself is a pile of crap. People can accept the idea that aliens can learn (the Xenomorphs sure could!). We can accept the idea that aliens can come from outerspace via Bioships, and have Biotanks, and actually pose a threat to people... but the idea they can achieve during one meal what it takes the rest of the galaxy several hundred million years and a hell of a lot of insanely improbable coincidence rubs people the wrong way.
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Old 28 May 2008, 15:19   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Realism in 40k

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Originally Posted by Wargamer
the idea they can "hyper-Evolve" is following the Star Wars "Evolution happens instantly with a bright flash of Light to keep Christians happy" path of thinking, which itself is a pile of Klkn.
Star Wars? Did I miss a reference here?
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Well I'd rather not play the game at all than play it like they did! :P
Crikey! This crazy clown causes commotion like the coming of Christ. Contained in a circle corrupted by crackheads and carnal cravings, he creates no concession to callous cheaters concentrating on nought but cock. Certainly, still a curious and cordial cavalier in the countenance of crazed cads, curs and creeps who condemn courtesy as something corny. No cloud could collapse his crushing crescendo of comical crowing and crimson coiffure. This conjecture on culture comes circumlocutive, consequently...

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Old 28 May 2008, 15:47   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Realism in 40k

Meant Trek. They're all a load of whiny Fanboys either way. :P
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Old 28 May 2008, 16:17   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Realism in 40k

I still don't get it. Where does Trek talk about evolution?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Restayvien
Well I'd rather not play the game at all than play it like they did! :P
Crikey! This crazy clown causes commotion like the coming of Christ. Contained in a circle corrupted by crackheads and carnal cravings, he creates no concession to callous cheaters concentrating on nought but cock. Certainly, still a curious and cordial cavalier in the countenance of crazed cads, curs and creeps who condemn courtesy as something corny. No cloud could collapse his crushing crescendo of comical crowing and crimson coiffure. This conjecture on culture comes circumlocutive, consequently...

You may call me Circus.
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Old 28 May 2008, 16:24   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Realism in 40k

Well so far I agree on most things about realism. However I know few examples I just can't stand.

One thing in particular I just can't stand is when some of the simplest physics laws are broken just to make something look good. Best example - Tau rail gun. Everything is "propa scy-fy" about it. Except the retarded "vacuum" trail. The force of impact overrides every possible effect like that, its just that simple. And what, you mean to tell me that the sight of the steel behemoth turning into ravaged scrap metal in less then tenth of a second is not impressive enough?! Its these kinds of things that makes me angry on fanboys.

The other thing is something I just DON'T like. 40k fluff Vs 40k on board are two different things. Why can't they be made closer? This IMHO only, but -> representation of stats most of the time is very clear. Like marine is being tough, and indeed he is hard to wound. His armor is ubber hard, and indeed its only open by a krak missile to the face. Seems very real right? In game a hit of krak missile will kill him almost certainly. In fluff, same marine would take 20 missiles to the jaw, laughed and killed the rest of the IG regiment with one bolter round... I don't find that idea good. (yeah I'm exaurating, at least i hope I am... ^_^)
YES you can explain it and make the smurfinator that though without braking to many simple physics laws. But my question is WHY would you want to do that?!

In board 40k, the balance, more or less maintained, as when compared with fluff, its just supermen fluff everywhere. I for one don't see that necessary. Certain individuals like Force commanders in smurfinator armor or Warbosses that look like a small building or Very very old eldar autarches can be treated as such "heroes". But mostly both Commander and Autarch will rely on there experience and skill in battle rather then "ubber coolness"... I think this kind of fluff wouldn't be less entertaining then the current.

Well that's my take on all this.

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Old 28 May 2008, 18:06   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Realism in 40k

The only problem I have with 40K realism wise is that Guardsmen suck. If you wanted realism, Guardsmen would be the best soldiers in the game, because they rely on their skill and their guts to achieve the impossible, making the Imperium of man the most powerful force in the galaxy.

If aliens really did exist, humans would make short work of them since we are such bloodthirsty maniacs.
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Old 28 May 2008, 18:12   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Realism in 40k

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallessian
If aliens really did exist, humans would make short work of them since we are such bloodthirsty maniacs.
Blood thirster walks up to a guardsman.
Guard:"I'm going to kill you because I'm a bloodthirsty maniac"
*Guard is cleaved in too*

Sorry I had to. :P

Yeah, I agree with sidestyler, you can't really have complete realism in a game with Daemons, Space elves and Tyrinads.
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