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1st turn assault?
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Old 03 Apr 2008, 23:06   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default 1st turn assault?

I was just wondering what people's view points are on the Availibilty of units that can have the ability to assualt an enemy unit that is more than 24 inches away in 1 turn only. Is this a problem if the assault can or cannot be made if it is the first turn? Is this not a problem at all? Would you want the first turn assaults to be done away with entirely? Or do you think that they are balanced as they are?
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Old 03 Apr 2008, 23:13   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: 1st turn assualt?

Well, think.

Very, very few models are able to do that, if any. So it doesnt seem plausible.
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Old 03 Apr 2008, 23:18   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1st turn assualt?

After playing a Dark Angels scout biker army, I think it can be quite a problem (with their 30" assault [12+12+6]) but, if you don't have vehicles in melta range (or if you go first instead of the bikers) then you should be able to tear them up pretty well. I really don't think 1st turn assaults are balanced since so few listings can get them (and those that can tend to excel at close combat).

Summary: Problem if they go first; Normal game if you go first; Broken if used as a majority of force!
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Old 03 Apr 2008, 23:23   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1st turn assualt?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Gear Mechanic
After playing a Dark Angels scout biker army, I think it can be quite a problem (with their 30" assault [12+12+6]) but, if you don't have vehicles in melta range (or if you go first instead of the bikers) then you should be able to tear them up pretty well. I really don't think 1st turn assaults are balanced since so few listings can get them (and those that can tend to excel at close combat).

Summary: Problem if they go first; Normal game if you go first; Broken if used as a majority of force!
Agreed. Also I saw a Kroot Mercs force do that a while ago. Infiltrating cavalry, 12" + fleet + 6" movement when you start from 18" away is bad news. Worse, he can have three squads do this, + two hqs with wings and infiltrate, + a piece of wargear that allows you to re-roll the dice for who gets the first turn. That can get broken quickly, esp. when your whole army infiltrates.
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Old 03 Apr 2008, 23:42   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1st turn assualt?

Another thing to watch out for from kroot mercs is the hyperactive nymune organ combined with blood of the stalker. This means that it's possible to have an infiltrating, fleet of foot unit set up d6" closer than usual to you. With some half decent dice rolling they could easily pull of a turn 1 charge and in considerable numbers.

Some other ones to watch out that haven't been mentioned are
-13th company Wulfen (cavalry with a scout move!)
-Slaanesh Daemon Princes (can use lash to pull you close enough to charge)
-Dark Eldar in Raiders, particularly Wyches because of the potential for a 12" charge move
-Deffkoptas
-Probably a few others I've forgotten

Personally, I'm not a fan of first turn assaults. With the I-go-you-go system of 40k there's just too much they can do before you even have a chance to react. There are certainly ways around such units (ie. deploying further back), but sometimes these measures just aren't possible. I think the ability to charge on turn 1 (if it's even possible) should be restricted to very specific units, such as those that would legitimately form a scouting party for the rest of the army.
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Old 03 Apr 2008, 23:52   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1st turn assualt?

But the nastyiest and most deathly one here is one no-one has mentioned....

Broodlord and Stealer unit...

Infiltrate then they GIVE you first turn, you shoot the close by combat unit, they take all wounds on the broodlord he dies, they where an infiltrated unit that can now fleet again.... it tore my command squad up a little but I saw the unit eat a guard army...
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Old 04 Apr 2008, 01:11   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1st turn assualt?

also i jsut rememberd, lictors. what do people think about lictors ability to assault out of any terrain peice.
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Old 04 Apr 2008, 01:36   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1st turn assualt?

Huh, I'm a bloody blank-minded fool.

Well, I suppose there are many, but also remember that these armies have very, very big weaknesses. If well dispersed your tropps can drop them like flies.
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Old 04 Apr 2008, 04:38   #9 (permalink)
Vxx
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Default Re: 1st turn assault?

For my Dark Eldar, and now my Raven Guard and its HQ, it makes for a very challenging game for my opponent, when my Wyches roll 12" assault for combat drugs. I still have lost games even with a first turn assault so its not always a game winner but its part of the strategy that I use. So I dont think that it should be removed since there are few armies that can utilize it. I can still win games without it but it is more fun to see the faces of my opponents when something like that can be pulled off. Plus its fluffy because the DE are pretty much the fastest army in game.
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Old 04 Apr 2008, 04:58   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1st turn assualt?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Gear Mechanic
After playing a Dark Angels scout biker army, I think it can be quite a problem (with their 30" assault [12+12+6]) but, if you don't have vehicles in melta range (or if you go first instead of the bikers) then you should be able to tear them up pretty well. I really don't think 1st turn assaults are balanced since so few listings can get them (and those that can tend to excel at close combat).

Summary: Problem if they go first; Normal game if you go first; Broken if used as a majority of force!
Just make sure they are following the rules. If they forget to make Scout moves before rolling to go first, then reroll the dice. Never allow them to make a Scout move if they know they have the first turn (unless they are automatically getting the first turn due to scenario rules, in which case there is nothing you can do).
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