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space marine worship
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Old 29 Mar 2008, 21:32   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default space marine worship

For some reason the search function isn't working for me.

Anyway, what is with gw and their marine worshipping fluff?

they make them so powerful its not even funny. Its like that for almost every other army. Necrons can't be stopped. Tyranids can't be stopped. Eldar are incredibly powerful. they had to handicap the ig because they were so damn powerful. csm are all powerful. If they united, the orks would own everyone. he only races I can think of that aren't like that are tau and de.

Why make such silly, unrealistic (within 40k universe) fluff?
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Old 29 Mar 2008, 21:40   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: space marine worship

So they can attract kids. Kid sees/hears fluff for -

Space Marines:

"So wait, they're super humans that can basically survive anything while killing everything? and they have really cool armour and weapons? I want them now!!!"

Or Necrons:

"So they just keep coming back? They're unstoppable?! I want them now!!!"

Or Tyranids:

"So there's like infinite amounts of them? and they kill whole worlds? I want them now!!!"

Or Orks:

"So they're born to fight? they want things to work so things work?! They can kill everyone if they just unite? I want them now!!!" [u]*goes off to try and unite all the ork players - we can kill everyone if we unite! the book even says so!*
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Old 29 Mar 2008, 21:58   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: space marine worship

yeah pretty much, its an advertising technique that relies on making the characters awesome and getting you to go out and buy more models so they make more money. honestly i think its a brilliant piece of entrepreneurial work and actually i go along with it. after reading the first few books of the Horus Heresy series the first thing i wanted to do was buy space marines. what have i done, i now play black legion. because now more than ever i can relate to them. I'm fascinated by how they turned from the emperor, what Abbadon was really like etc. They're more real to me now than the Tau are, which is my first race.

also, we are humans, most don't want to read about how the puny humans were outgunned by evil strange xenos, or eaten by some completely randon biorganism from space, we're human we want humans to win!
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Old 30 Mar 2008, 04:19   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: space marine worship

I'm so sick of people complaining about all this sorta stuff. :

Look, each codex is written from the point of view of that army, and is designed to get people pumped up and excited about their army. They highlight the awesome and downplay defeats (unless their heroic last stands).

Just keep that in mind.
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Old 30 Mar 2008, 09:23   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: space marine worship

The codices arent from the individual races standpoints, they are from the readers standpoints. That is, civilians. If you are a human civilian, youre generally screwed.

If you are a human, you are screwed. Spacemarines do better. Eldar do better, (pr. individual) but are still generally screwed. Tau dont know yet that they are screwed. Dark eldar dont care, or wont admit to it, but there are no less problems for the DE than for eldar in general. The individual guardsman is so screwed, considering he is actually just shielding the guy behind him, who again is shileding the guy behind him. Even though the imperium may be mighty, but its cumbersome and slow so they wont get far ever. And orks wont unite. Then there are necrons and nids, but they have holes in their stories too. Necrons are dangerous, but went to sleep in another time where they didnt have to fight so much for their gods' food. Nids cant be stopped, and they generally own necrons too. We'll be eaten by bugs.

In the grand scheme of things, the galaxy is screwed, so go figure.

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Old 30 Mar 2008, 10:08   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: space marine worship

Who is going to buy Space Marines if the first page of the codex says: "The Space Marines are quite good, but they get their ass kicked by allot of other armies, why don't you get them instead?"
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Old 30 Mar 2008, 15:16   #7 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: space marine worship

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Originally Posted by Vendak
Who is going to buy Space Marines if the first page of the codex says: "The Space Marines are quite good, but they get their ass kicked by allot of other armies, why don't you get them instead?"
as i said, we're humans, we want to see humans win, it would be really boring if the imperium just collapsed into dust
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Old 30 Mar 2008, 15:21   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: space marine worship

A particularly cynical guy by the name of Stephane posted a rant awhile ago about the evolution of Marines from Toughness 3 powerarmor humans, to the soldiers that have superstrength, acid-spitting, and half a brain.

http://www.stephane.info/show.php?code=codex_not_marine

Of course some of it is obviously humor as he quotes people like Kid_Kyoto and Green_Jello, but other stuff such as them being the best-sold etc. is IMO more spot on. The having to tailor an army to specifically take on Marines is one major issue as it makes even those games which are victorious against them feel stale.
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Old 30 Mar 2008, 16:11   #9 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: space marine worship

This is humour, and over-the-top.

Sure, GW focusses on Marines, but it is understandable that they are GWs posterboys. Nearly every introduction game is done with them. They are tough, they are strong, and don`t require any fancy tactics - besides, they look awesome.

Everyone immediately can understand "human elite warrior". Try getting a 12 year old kid (or a teenager, for that matter) to understand what a "Firewarrior" is, or an Eldar Guardian - who they are, why they are fighting.

Marines are easy: Super Humans protecting Mankind against the scum of the universe.

As for the "super hard to beat"-argument: They aren`t. No matter what you might think, they are not unbeatable. Yes, they are above average in everything, but no, they don`t excel at anything, apart from mediocrity.
All their army has a single stat-line, with varying armour saves. That`s it, basically. All you have to know is what part of a Marine army you have to hit with what unit of yours, and you`re fine. Even their "CC specialists" can`t stand up to CC specialists of other races - Genestealers shred TEQs to pieces, same with Banshees, DE, Ork Nobs, and so on.
Besides, most armies have one or two weapons specifically designed to deal with Marines - be it the Ioncannon, the Rocket Launcher, the Reaper Launcher, the Plasmagun, or whatever. One or two of those, and most Marines will think twice before leaving cover.

Yes, their Leadership is great. So what? They are not alone. Nids have Synapse, Eldar and Necrons great Ld, as well, Orks have the Mob Rule, and so on.
Actually, the armies with Ld problems could be counted by a blind butcher with one hand: DE, Eldar (to some extent), Tau.

And to prove a counterpoint: Not everyone plays Marines. Our local gamestore just hosted a booth at a local con, and of course we had a lot of minis on display.
Not. A. Single. Space. Marine.

True, we had a couple of Chaos chaps, but that was about it - Baneblades, IGs, Necrons, Orks, were featured, but no loyal Marine in sight (oh my, no - there were a couple of Ultramarines - 5, I think...).

So please, stop the Marine bashing. True, GW focusses on them, but how many of you would be in the hobby without them? They are the classic hero figures, and I don`t know a single person who isn`t at least marginally impressed by Marines. They sell well, which brings in money GW needs to bring out new plastics and metallics for other races (or do you really think the mold for the Necronlord pays itself off?).
Yes, it can grate on the nerves. Yes, Im sick of Marine fanboys, as well. But it is understandable, and while I can see some Marine-pushing, they are by no means unbeatable in the game, and no other race "gets the shaft" because of them (well, apart from DE, maybe...).

Cheers,
-Bone
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Old 31 Mar 2008, 04:41   #10 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: space marine worship

C'mon, more marine-bashing?
thanks cmdrbonesaw, a good voice of reason here. Plenty of people get into 40K with the marines, myself included. I've had to put up with whiny people telling me I'm a 'marine fanboy' for a couple of years now, getting kinda old! They have strengths and weaknesses just like every other race. As for the background, remember that little thing called artistic licence?
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