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Cityfight and forge world models
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Old 06 Mar 2008, 17:22   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Cityfight and forge world models

A few questions.

What is the difference between Cityfight and Cities of Death? (Im trying to make sure my Cityfight Codex isnt the outdated version of W40K urban combat) and do more people play Cityfight or Cities of Death?

To use Forge World Tau models, would I have to own The Taros Campaign and the Latest Imperial Armour Book? Also, if forge world models are only allowed in Apocalypse, would I also need the Apocalypse rulebook?
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Old 06 Mar 2008, 17:43   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Cityfight and forge world models

Quote:
Originally Posted by LtCmdrTyler
What is the difference between Cityfight and Cities of Death? (Im trying to make sure my Cityfight Codex isnt the outdated version of W40K urban combat) and do more people play Cityfight or Cities of Death?
Technically, CoD replaced Cityfight, but if you ask me, Cityfight is the better book. It is much more in depth, and there are many cool special rules out there. CoD, on the other hand, is basically just 4th edition rules. The stratagems are pretty rubbish, IMO, and half the book is just a big ad for their gothic city pieces. Not to mention the horrible fluff in there that seems like it was written for ten year olds, complete with hero-on-hero battles and everything.
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Old 07 Mar 2008, 04:08   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Cityfight and forge world models

Think you could do a quick bare-bone comparison?
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Old 07 Mar 2008, 05:18   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Cityfight and forge world models

Okay, here it goes.

Cities of Death:
The Cities of Death book is written to have as little rule changes as possible. And, indeed there are very little, so the game is almost identical to normal 4th edition 40k. One of the biggest additions in CoD come in the forms of stratagems. In my opinion, these can be kind of cool, but some of them seem to be ripped from the old Cityfight armory. There is no universal height advantage that gives troops up high in buildings shooting bonuses. You need a stratagem in order to take advantage of height, which is pretty stupid, if you ask me. However, there are ten battle scenarios, compared to Cityfight's seven.

Another good portion of the book is basically a big ad for their gothic buildings. Page after page of big shiny pictures. A lot of the background information in there seems childish or implausible, given the nature of the Imperium and the 40k universe. For example, there is a small bit that says that most cities in the Imperium are dark, filthy places where the inhabitants eke out a meager living working twenty hours a day and sleep under their work benches.

Cityfight:
I would say that this ruleset is more "realistic", if you will, of the two city fighting books. The rule changes aren't really all that radical, as much of the basic stuff is the same, but there are several major changes. First, the close combat system is a bit different. The way that template, barrage and blast weapons are changed as well. There are also several special rules for just about each race. Unfortunately, the Tau aren't included. For me, I was excited when I picked up the book because my Imperial Guard get several cool special rules. For example, I can choose to split up my large ten man squads into two five man fireteams, and I can split heavy weapons teams apart and place them where I want. There are also several other universal special rules, such as a universal height advantage, siege armor for tanks and the ability for wrecked vehicles to get pushed out of the way. There are seven scenarios, unlike CoD's ten, but Cityfight has the Grand Assault, which is complete with it's own attacker's and defender's armories where you can assign unique, specialist items to your units.

The background is infinitely better than that of CoD. There are several descriptions of the types of cities located throughout the galaxy, and there is what seems to be a historical description of the Khai-Zahn Uprising and the Battle for Vogen. There is also an extremely cool battle report pitting the Cadian 122nd against the Night Lords. There are also tutorials for building your own city out of scratch instead of telling you to buy their stuff, like CoD basically does.
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But seriously, a Guardsman, I'm willing to bet, could a) outshoot me, b) give me the beating of my life, and c) shove more squad-based tactics down my throat than I'd ever care to digest. Guard are hard, hard men. Whether or not GW's inconsistent, Marine-worshipping fluff keeps with that, mkay?

Real men fight in tanks!


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Originally Posted by Nox
Legio why do I always imagine you shouting when I read your posts? :P
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Old 07 Mar 2008, 08:21   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Cityfight and forge world models

Cities of Death: I never liked it, it more or less nerfs most shooting armies (I play Guard and Tau) while simultaneously giving combat armies the advantage.

Cityfight: Has much more detail, flexibility and character and it wouldn't be too difficult to come up with some race-specific rules for the Tau (might have to look into that).
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Old 07 Mar 2008, 14:30   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Cityfight and forge world models

To explain the Forgeworld side...

If you are using Imperial Armour books (not Imperial Armour: Apocalypse), then you can use Forgeworld units in normal games. You CANNOT use Apocalypse units in normal 40K games.
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Old 07 Mar 2008, 14:57   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Cityfight and forge world models

For the Forgeworld one, If your playing normal games of 40K then you'll need the Imperial armour 3: The Taros campaign book, you generally have to ask your opponents permission before using Imperial Armour rules. If your playing apocalypse then you need IA apocalypse to use forge world models, I don't know whats in it because I havn't bought it
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Old 08 Mar 2008, 19:22   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Cityfight and forge world models

In answer to the Forgeworld question, I think you can use your Tau Forgeworld models in any regular game as long as you have Imperial Armor: Volume 3 for the rules. It's just that alot of the big guns in Forgeworld require so many points you can't really use them. (The Manta, for example.)
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Old 08 Mar 2008, 19:46   #9 (permalink)
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Default Apoc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendak
For the Forgeworld one, If your playing normal games of 40K then you'll need the Imperial armour 3: The Taros campaign book, you generally have to ask your opponents permission before using Imperial Armour rules. If your playing apocalypse then you need IA apocalypse to use forge world models, I don't know whats in it because I havn't bought it
Apocalypse takes away all the rules of army-building (HQ, Elite, Troops) and you can field whatever you can afford. Also there's one new armour-piercing weapon ("D") and some other minor rules. Oh, and ginormous pie plates.

I don't really approve of it. It's like, "Take everything you has and throws on table!" I think they should still have kept army organisation charts, it feels less like a game than taking rules away from a game and charging US$50 for pictures of games they've played. I was quite aggravated to read the "rules", which compose about 5 pages out of the entire book.

Well, okay, they have sample force organisation charts, but those are like special rules: pay points and have at least X models and you get these special advantages.

*sigh* oh well, at least it's pretty.
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Old 08 Mar 2008, 20:10   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Apoc

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Originally Posted by Behdini
It's like, "Take everything you has and throws on table!" *sigh* oh well, at least it's pretty.
But that is precisley the point of Apoclaypse. They never prtended otherwise, and basically said exactly that in all the designer notes and the introduction!

As for COD vs. Cityfight, I think Cities of Death is by far superior.

For starters the old cityfight rules were built for 3rd edition. They changed the game up pretty radically, especially with things like Buildings as area terrain, the prevalance of 4+ cover and close combat being much much more deadly and involving more troops.

All these changes got built right into the 4th edition rules set, making them totally redundant.

Cities of Death however is built as an EXPANSION for 4th ed.

It does a totally brillaint job at that. By changing a few minor rules, i.e. blasts only effecting one level, scoring units become non scoring at 25% and changing all the missions, as well as introducing strategems and special set up rules for the board they radically change the game.
You now have a system that takes not time at all to learn if you already know the 40k rules, but is very flexible, different from a standard game and with a very claustrophobic objective oriented style of game play.
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