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Did Andy C really have a disagreement with the rest of game devs over------
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Old 06 Mar 2008, 12:52   #1 (permalink)
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Default Did Andy C really have a disagreement with the rest of game devs over------

----the result of the Eye of Terror Campaign?


Somebody said that whilst the others tried to twist it into a more favourable light for the forces of order (which IMO did happen eventually, were the declaration of the results up to me, I would have given complete victory to Chaos save for the webway sectors which was a minor Eldar victory) but Andy C just flat out said that Chaos won the 13th black crusade, plain and simple.


If that is true then my love for him has just increased another few folds. I was really pissed over GW's mollycoddling of the forces of order in that campaign. I mean they actually TOLD the forces of order about the cascade effect eventually just because the leadership in that camp were too stupid to work it out unlike the chaos side think tanks and leadership groups. And eventually claiming that Cadia was just held? 30-ish% does not a held world make....
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Old 06 Mar 2008, 13:27   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Did Andy C really have a disagreement with the rest of game devs over------

Bah, I don't see how the Cadian gate with held the whole crusade, yeah it's garrisson world/system, but hell.. enough stuff came out of the eye of terror to utterly destroy,

And why didn't abaddon use the Planet killer on it >

I really liked Andy C..
And fat bloke..
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Old 06 Mar 2008, 14:43   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Did Andy C really have a disagreement with the rest of game devs over------

Shows, perhaps, that Andy C is firmly in Camp Stupid.

Chaos held the planets.

The Imperial Navy held the stars.

Ergo, Imperial Victory; armies can be bombed from orbit. Ships cannot be bombed from the ground.
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Old 06 Mar 2008, 14:53   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Did Andy C really have a disagreement with the rest of game devs over------

I've herd that it was more of a disagreement over 4th edition, but who knows...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wargamer
Ergo, Imperial Victory; armies can be bombed from orbit. Ships cannot be bombed from the ground.
No, but last time I checked you could strap rockets to them and aim up. ;D
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Old 06 Mar 2008, 17:15   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Did Andy C really have a disagreement with the rest of game devs over------

Yeah, I read that Chaos owned at ground combat, but that the Imperial players playing Battlefleet Gothic where on a roll. Fluff wise, if you dont have control of the orbit over a planet you have no reinforcements (save for summoning daemons), no supplies coming in and your being bombarded 24/7.
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Old 06 Mar 2008, 17:37   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Did Andy C really have a disagreement with the rest of game devs over------

There are a lot of factors to consider regarding who "wins" just because they have ships in orbit.

Having complete orbital and air superiority through a naval blockade will undoubtedly win the war in the long run, and is a great strategic advantage, but in the Grim Darkness of the Far Future it's quite likely ground forces will have so much personnel, weapons, ammunition, food, and water stockpiled that they can fight and fight for months or years on end without so much as skipping a beat.

Some races (Orks and Nids, for example), don't need ships in orbit at all to wreak massive havoc on a planet, enough in most cases to the planet's infrastructure or even ecosystem to "win" the long battle by default.

In the short term, orbital superiority is by no means the end all be all deciding point for victory. Ground-Based Anti-Orbital defenses, stockpiles of supplies and troops, and the possibility of Naval reinforcements arriving can render most orbital advantages and benefits null and void - but that's riding a lot on whether or not the "defending force" has those cards in their favor.
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Old 07 Mar 2008, 05:21   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Did Andy C really have a disagreement with the rest of game devs over------

Quote:
Originally Posted by LtCmdrTyler
Yeah, I read that Chaos owned at ground combat, but that the Imperial players playing Battlefleet Gothic where on a roll. Fluff wise, if you dont have control of the orbit over a planet you have no reinforcements (save for summoning daemons), no supplies coming in and your being bombarded 24/7.

Forces of order propaganda.


The simple fact of the matter is that you could report victories in either space (sector and system level) or planetary levels. And the forces of order camp which outnumbered disorder maybe 3 players to 1 and ergo could report more victories, were too disorganized to work out the cascade effect and organize significant actions on the planetary level.


It says for the stupidity and sheer ineptitude of the Order camp that despite having like three times the players of the Disorder camp, they couldn't hold onto their planets. And that players were stupidly still ignoring high command and spamming the system and sector level even as planets were dropping like flies in Cadia, Belis Corona and Agrippina.

The victory of Chaos over the Imperials was one of organization versus mindlessness, efficiency versus sluggishness, few over many, and cunning over gullibility (Chaos had a very good system of spies and double agents feeding the forces of order bullcrap throughout the campaign).

I wish I could say the Eldar managed a degree of redemption through their stellar performances in the three webway sectors, but in all good conscience I can't. That was merely a victory of numbers. Eldar vs. Thousand Sons, Necrons and Dark Eldar. Player wise maybe we outnumbered them at least two to one.


I know this is the issue I disagree with WG the most on in 40k. I thought EoT was the only good campaign GW has run, whilst Ammargedon and Medusa V were exercises in wasting time.


Because if we tried to take into account the system and sector level victories, we might as well proclaim a default spacemarine win before any campaign. Because there was not a way in hell Chaos could have contested system and sector level where a thousand noobs (along with a few BFG players) claimed victory after victory. The fact that Chaos managed to take over so many key planets despite a massive numerical inferiority and GW bias towards the forces of order (eventually GW leaked to the FoO the cascade effect) means that it was nothing less than total victory, and this is coming from myself, an Eldar player who fought for the FoO throughout that entire campaign. Even when the other Eldar players left to take the webway sectors I was still trying to follow the Imperial strategy to take back Cadia. But even I can see that we got decimated.
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Old 07 Mar 2008, 05:44   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Did Andy C really have a disagreement with the rest of game devs over------

Atleast it wasn't SoC.
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Old 07 Mar 2008, 06:37   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Did Andy C really have a disagreement with the rest of game devs over------

I think the bigger problem with Eye of Terror is that there was no insurance that any of that vast number of reported games were ever actually played. All you needed was one account to report wins and a few accounts to report losses.
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Old 07 Mar 2008, 06:57   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Did Andy C really have a disagreement with the rest of game devs over------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazedmongoose
It says for the stupidity and sheer ineptitude of the Order camp that despite having like three times the players of the Disorder camp, they couldn't hold onto their planets. And that players were stupidly still ignoring high command and spamming the system and sector level even as planets were dropping like flies in Cadia, Belis Corona and Agrippina.
Call me stupid, but I`ve NEVER understood how "strength in numbers" applied in a campaign where the number of played GAMES were counted.
Yes, even IF there are three FoO guys at my local store; as a FoD player, I can only play against ONE.

Besides, it IS easier to organise fewer players. And if you have a hard core of, say, 1.000 gamers on every side who take things "seriously", the smaller fraction wins, since the percentage of "organised" players is much greater...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wargamer
Shows, perhaps, that Andy C is firmly in Camp Stupid.

Chaos held the planets.

The Imperial Navy held the stars.

Ergo, Imperial Victory; armies can be bombed from orbit. Ships cannot be bombed from the ground.
It depends on the objective. If you`re out to just lay waste to a fortress world (and consider your forces expendable), then, yes, you COULD win this way. A completely gutted planet means no direct support for the fleet from its surface, which means the fleet can`t stay permanently in the system; it means no planetary defences, it means no strongpoints of defense.
In a way, it doesn`t MATTER how many Imperial ships there are in orbit - what should the do? Bombard the Traitors? Now, THAT`s a good idea - bombard the guys in the very fortifications which make this system so very important! :P

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