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Old 31 Jan 2008, 19:51   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Surprise Army

First post here about my second game.

Was challenged to face someone's Imperial Guard as my second game, agreed to a normal game of 40k.

Now, I know the player in question often bends the rules, or forgets things that aren't beneficial to him, or better thinks BS3 means hits on 3.

Is it normal to face an Imperial Armour Company with no infantry, only tanks, griffon, variants not in the codex (but used to be, I loved those ) but in Imperial Armour, and two flyers in 1500 points without agreement? I was fully expecting a large imperial army. When I saw 6 tanks, a sentinel and 2 of those cyclops detonation minitank things (had to remind him they had operators, I think they do anyway).

I did let a lot slide in the first half of the game due to not really knowing the rules too well (had to check vehicle damage table every time I hit a vehicle (or he hit mine)), but after half the game and he was thrashing me by cheating I got a bit annoyed and asked someone whenever I thought something was wrong (depressingly almost everytime he moved). From this point on I decimated his army with my crisis suits and fire warriors removing his tanks.

So the main questions are, is it right to bring a variant/non codex army without warning? And also to bring Flyers without warning that you "might" have them.

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Old 31 Jan 2008, 19:57   #2 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Surprise Army

Well it sounds harsh but if you have the right list your army can cope with anything, Tank companies are pretty weak compared to a full blown guard army, but he should at east know the rules for them before he uses them, I'd let him use it ( I enjoy a challenge) but otherwise I wouldn't let them without me having a prepared list first, (like you both agree before hand)
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Old 31 Jan 2008, 20:55   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Surprise Army

It depends. Was this in a tournament, or just a friendly game. If it was a tournament, I would expect his list to follow tournament rules (so if the rules allowed IA, then he's good to go).

If it's a friendly game, I don't really care. It's pretty much personal opinion. I won't bring a non-standard list without talking to my opponent about it first, but I don't expect them to do the same.
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Old 31 Jan 2008, 21:21   #4 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: Surprise Army

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcyCool
If it's a friendly game, I don't really care. It's pretty much personal opinion. I won't bring a non-standard list without talking to my opponent about it first, but I don't expect them to do the same.
Oh, it was a friendly game. But one of those ones you get out of the way.

Around here the majority of the players, and the store owner encourage "friendly" armies, and not tournament style ones, and while I'd play someone quite happily with a tourney army versus my random thrown together from what I could buy for 150 in one day army, being surprised by someone taking an option I'd never seen nor heard of (yup, I'd never heard of an all and only IG tank army ) even though I own the IG codex and have a 2000 point army for them (being made, but damn, glueing over 300 storm troopers and guardsmen is insane. Painting them will be fun ;D ).

Generally it's accepted here if someone brings something "out of the norm" or "not in the codex" or hell, in Warhammer "Special Characters" (and I think 40k, but until a few weeks ago I've only been into warhammer), they'll either inform or ask the week before. So that's all I'm used too at the moment.

However since playing flyers today I've become heavily interested and intend to purchase a few Remoras. I might not have had a clue about them before, but I like them now.
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Old 31 Jan 2008, 21:43   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Surprise Army

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWhitey
So the main questions are, is it right to bring a variant/non codex army without warning? And also to bring Flyers without warning that you "might" have them.
If you want a short answer: No.

If you`d prefer a longer answer, I`d find a way to say no while also insulting the integrity of the person who fields such armies.

The point is: Official 40K consists of the Rule Book, the (current) Codices (no matter if they are in book-form or in a WD), the official Errata - period.

Everything else is house rules, and house rules need to be clarified before the game starts. Otherwise, I could just invent my own unit, or play a mixture of units from the new and the old Codex: Tau.

ESPECIALLY in friendly games (that`s why they are called "friendly" games, not "hostile" games - because you treat your opponent friendly, with due respect, and so on. Steamrolling him with an all-flyer list is not what I`d call "friendly").

Cheers,
-Bone
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Old 01 Feb 2008, 04:43   #6 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: Surprise Army

Absolutely not. Imperial Armour and Forge World is balanced with the idea that both sides will have the option to use it. Flyers are balanced by Anti-aircraft rules not found in the regular game, and Super Heavies are balanced by other Super Heavies. Added to this is the fact that the Armoured Company itself is not really a codex army. Outside of Apocalypse or other large games between more than two people, I would say that it is never appropriate to field this sort of army without letting your opponent know in advance.

That is not to say that you need to tell them the exact army, as that invites tailoring. But if you plan to use an irregular army, flyers, or super-heavies, your opponent needs to know that and agree well before the game.
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Old 01 Feb 2008, 06:20   #7 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Surprise Army

As far as I can tell, you've been had by this player. Their are old rules for an Armored company list, but to my knowledge they were opponents permission, and from the sound of it, this guy simply took whatever he wanted, while (I'm assuming) you stuck to your FOC restrictions. What's even funnier, IMO, is that apparently this guy isn't good with the rules, yet he's pulling out flyers on you, which require another set of rules that are added on top of the regular 40k game. If he asked for another game, I'd bluntly say, either let me know what your planning before dropping such a slapdash army list on me (my friend at least asked before whipping out his Armored Company, trust me 4 Russ's equals dead Tau :-\), or bring a proper army.
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Old 01 Feb 2008, 07:11   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Surprise Army

I play 40k once every 1 month or so, and I normally prepare it a week in advance. That way, I tell my opponent the style and theme of my army, and he replies what he intends to counter it with. That said, we never tool up against each other, like bringing 16 bright lances against an army of tanks. I generally just say something along the lines of "bring your heavy bolters, I'm going horde", and he'll say "ok, then I guess I'll try with a few battlecannons".

Then we have general idea, but we dont exploit that knowledge beyond making sure we have some countermeasures to each other, so it wont be a walkover - its just about having a good time, and about playing fair. Walkovers arent fun. They generally make one person a bit more gloomy than need be, and thats no fun.

Not about breaking the rules. Its ok to use 15 points more than agreed, but its not ok to have 5 heavy choices and 1 troop...

Balance, fairness and fun... Its just a game...
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Old 02 Feb 2008, 12:13   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Surprise Army

The only thing I would have a problem with is the fliers. Everytihng else is in the Armour Company Codex. You can download it from GW's website. For most tournaments it is legal.
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