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Storm Shield rule please Help!!
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Old 14 Jan 2008, 09:13   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Storm Shield rule please Help!!

hi every one,

i'm sorry for posting this here but no body seems to have anything to say about my query in my armies rule section. i find this a concern as it does touch on all relevant space marine players.

can you please help me with this query.

recently i have wanted to equip my Daemon hunters grandmaster with a NFW and a Storm Shield and give him a retinue of 4 GKT with thunder hammers and storm shields. However, i am unsure of wether all of the above would get their extra attack from the storm shield?

now, i have read the forums that post about the storm shields and they all say to follow codex Space Marines (which say they dont). however, when i ask to be pointed in the direction of an official release from games workshop that says all space marine armies (including grey Knights) follow all the new wargear rules no body has anything to say.

currently im justifying that they do get an extra attack because,

1. they have an entry that specifically states that the shield counts as a CCW. and
2. the greyknights weapon skill should represent that they know how to smack someone in the face with a shield!

can somebody please clear this up with actual concrete evidence or are we free to pick and choose what we want. (such as my crusader having always firing hurricane bolters and machine spirit and rending).

one of my main concerns is not only the confusion of wether a storm shield is or isnt a close combat weapon but wether variants of space marines such as greyknights, salamanders etc use all of the new space marines armoury rules.

as far as i know nobody has any evidence to say that they have too but can stick to their origianl codex if their options are better. for example some players tend to take rending and heavy 4 while disregarding that their codex actually says heavy 3

if any body has anything regarding this matter please help as it would benifit many players who have variants and normal marines.

thank you.
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Old 14 Jan 2008, 09:26   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Storm Shield rule please Help!!

Right, here we go...

The Storm Shield, according to some sources, does not give +1 Attack for two close combat weapons, despite "using up" one of your hands.

It's something of a difficult call. As the latest Codices all state the Storm Shield does not give +1 Attack (Marines, Dark Angels and Blood Angels), then I'd have to say the same applies here; no matter how good a Grey Knight is at fighting, he's not going to turn that shield into a weapon!
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Old 14 Jan 2008, 10:59   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Storm Shield rule please Help!!

Yeah it uses one of your hands but Doesn't count as a weapon.
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Old 15 Jan 2008, 05:08   #4 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Storm Shield rule please Help!!

ok, thanks guys. point taken.

i wont dispute that as it does seem like the trend that space marines will lose the extra attack.

however id still like to point out my main concern.

there is no actual concrete evidence that says specifically that all old space marine codices have to follow the new vanilla space marine codecies entires.

this, in my opinion, is a mistake by games workshop that could have been avoided if they had just reviewed their work before publishing. but i guess we're all used to that. :

as a side note: do you know of any tournaments in which they enforce the new wargear options on old armies such as salamanders, space wolves etc? if its enforced in tournament play then that should be good enough for everyone.
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Old 15 Jan 2008, 07:40   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Storm Shield rule please Help!!

It'll say in main tournament rules which codices are allowed to be used.
I know eye of terror and armageddon have gone now, not too sure on space wolves though..
You basically have to use most up to date codex, so no using salamander rules from armageddon for example, as that codex is 'illegal'..
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Old 16 Jan 2008, 04:31   #6 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Storm Shield rule please Help!!

If you have an army specific codex, that supercedes the SM codex. Unless, of course, the rule is referenced directly to the SM codex, as some are.

If the DH rulebook explicitly says it gives an extra attack, then it does. If it does not specify either way, then refer to the SM codex.
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Old 16 Jan 2008, 09:18   #7 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Storm Shield rule please Help!!

Thanks Tyndmyr,

you do have a convincing point,

The Daemonhunters codex does state specifically in the armoury that it is considered a 'close combat weapon'. Hence from this specific note i would consider the rules for an additional close combat weapon do take effect.

all though i do still acknowledge the trend set by the space marine codices, i would have a good case to say 'shove off' to any space marine player who would suggest that a space marine codex is applicable to an inquisitorial codex even if the space marine codex is newer. (completly different armies)

one more thought as well, completly fluff wise; would players consider the space marine codex to be applicable to the inquisitional forces at all?

consider that the inquisition have super, super space marines (grey knights), sneaky space marines with super special guns, and of course nuns that can crack terminator armour with heavy bolters!! the inquisition makes the awsome, awsomER ;D

so why not a little storm shield to the face... :-[

thanks for all your guys help. it is greatly appreciated.


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Old 16 Jan 2008, 20:12   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Storm Shield rule please Help!!

Quote:
for example some players tend to take rending and heavy 4 while disregarding that their codex actually says heavy 3
I'm just curioius as to what you are reffering to? My guess would be the Assault Cannon, but as far as I know, Space Marines are the only ones with access, and the stats have been changed in all the codecii. I beleive the only one without the stat change would be the Space Wolf codex, where its still Heavy 3 and gets jammed.
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Old 16 Jan 2008, 22:38   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Storm Shield rule please Help!!

The latest Codex rules always take precedence. For example, it does not state in the Daemonhunters Codex that the Land Raider has the "Power of the Machine Spirit", however, since it is standard in the SM Codex, the DH Land Raider does indeed have that ability (I have confirmed this with GW).

The points costs, however, remain as in the Codex.
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Old 16 Jan 2008, 22:40   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Storm Shield rule please Help!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidgr33n
The latest Codex rules always take precedence. For example, it does not state in the Daemonhunters Codex that the Land Raider has the "Power of the Machine Spirit", however, since it is standard in the SM Codex, the DH Land Raider does indeed have that ability (I have confirmed this with GW).

The points costs, however, remain as in the Codex.
So that would then mean that all Imperial Shotguns are Strength 4?
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