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torrent of fire vs CWMTOW
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Old 29 Dec 2007, 05:29   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default torrent of fire vs CWMTOW

I just answered a question on the "torrent of fire" rule (rulebook, pg 26), and it spawned another, more difficult one. Rather than hijack that thread, I'm asking it in a fresh topic. I play Tau, and my son plays Tyranids. He usually fields a Hive Tyrant with two Tyrant Guards as an HQ. The following scenario seems really cheesy, so I'm wondering if there's a rule besides sheer sportsmanship that would prevent it. I unload on his Tyrant Guard unit with my three-man broadside squad, hitting and wounding with all three railguns. I claim torrent of fire and point to the hive tyrant. The tyrant either takes a wound (if he didn't take Warp Field) or fails the invulnerable save (if he did). I now claim the Creatures With More Than One Wound rule and apply all future wounds to the Tyrant, completely negating the existence of the Tyrant Guards.

Can anybody point to a rule that addresses this? Also, does it matter for Torrent of Fire whether or not the models get a save?

Thanks.
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Old 29 Dec 2007, 05:53   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: torrent of fire vs CWMTOW

What rule are you referring to? The one where you have to remove whole models where possible?

Because its easy; the Tyrant's a character. It goes last unless its THE closest model under some number of inches. :
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Old 29 Dec 2007, 06:03   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: torrent of fire vs CWMTOW

Yes, Creatures With More Than One Wound (CWMTOW) is the one that says you must remove whole models whenever possible.

The Tyrant is a Monstrous Creature, not a Independent Character. His guards prevent you from picking him out as a separate Monstrous Creature from his guards.
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Old 29 Dec 2007, 06:23   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: torrent of fire vs CWMTOW

Quote:
Originally Posted by knightperson
Yes, Creatures With More Than One Wound (CWMTOW) is the one that says you must remove whole models whenever possible.

The Tyrant is a Monstrous Creature, not a Independent Character. His guards prevent you from picking him out as a separate Monstrous Creature from his guards.
My bad. But then the Guard rules are what saves it. So the wounds go to them first, excluding that one that has to be allocated to the Tyrant.
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Old 29 Dec 2007, 07:48   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: torrent of fire vs CWMTOW

Thunder is correct, wounds must be placed on the Tyrant Guard first.
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Old 29 Dec 2007, 18:31   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: torrent of fire vs CWMTOW

But then that violates Creatures With More Than One Wound, doesn't it? If you apply the next wound to the guard you would have 2 wounded multiwound models in the unit, which CWMTOW forbids.
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Old 29 Dec 2007, 18:48   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: torrent of fire vs CWMTOW

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Originally Posted by knightperson
But then that violates Creatures With More Than One Wound, doesn't it? If you apply the next wound to the guard you would have 2 wounded multiwound models in the unit, which CWMTOW forbids.
Well, then the only thing I can think of is that you can't target the Tyrant with the "Torrent of Fire" rule. The rules in the codex override the rules in the BGB.
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Old 30 Dec 2007, 04:22   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: torrent of fire vs CWMTOW

Quote:
Originally Posted by knightperson
But then that violates Creatures With More Than One Wound, doesn't it? If you apply the next wound to the guard you would have 2 wounded multiwound models in the unit, which CWMTOW forbids.
This is supposed to be a problem? Obviously, the Codex overrides the rulebook, as was the intention. In this case, it overrides the CWMTOW rule.

I don't really understand why you seem to almost prefer taking the most anal interpretation possible.

Try to read what they meant, not what they wrote.
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Old 30 Dec 2007, 04:27   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: torrent of fire vs CWMTOW

Because they're Tyranids Thunder... You have to kill them no matter what... Just like giving Tau rending on a 3+ to kill the tyranids(Tau player ended up winning that one, he had something like 10 models left when we decided to do that... plus Kharn the Betrayer... a twin linked lascannon turret, a lascannon turret... and a heavy bolter Chaos space marine.... all I know is his brother and he kept putting things on the table.... but we're all veterans, we were just messing around)
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Old 30 Dec 2007, 05:00   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: torrent of fire vs CWMTOW

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord-General Thunder
Quote:
Originally Posted by knightperson
But then that violates Creatures With More Than One Wound, doesn't it? If you apply the next wound to the guard you would have 2 wounded multiwound models in the unit, which CWMTOW forbids.
This is supposed to be a problem? Obviously, the Codex overrides the rulebook, as was the intention. In this case, it overrides the CWMTOW rule.

I don't really understand why you seem to almost prefer taking the most anal interpretation possible.

Try to read what they meant, not what they wrote.
I don't particularly go for anal interpretations, but my brain picks out places where the rules conflict with each other, or appear to. Also, might as well admit it, there's a rules lawyer or two at the store where I play, so it's helpful to try to come up with obscure arguments and resolve them before starting play. It does make sense, though, that Monstrous Creatures are immune to Torrent of Fire. I think the codex rule is there because the tyrant guard is the only unit in the game that can have multiple Monstrous Creatures. Are there any other multiple monstrous creature units like that?
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