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Forcing a model to make more than one save?
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Old 29 Dec 2007, 03:18   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Forcing a model to make more than one save?

Recent rules discussion... per pg 26 of rules, if a unit receives "as many wounding hits" as there are models in the unit, the player who shot can nominate one model to take a save against one of the wounding hits. Other saves are then taken as normal.

Ok according to friend, if he was to score 12 wounds against an 8 model squad then he could force TWO saves by a particular model. Pretty much his assertion was that if the unit had 'n' models, then n wounds would allow one forced save, n+1 wounds would allow two forced saves, 2n+1 would allow three forced saves, etc.

Does that make any sense? Is it in any way correct? I thought (just from reading the rules, not playing) that it was one and only one forced save for each volley of shooting.
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Old 29 Dec 2007, 04:03   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Forcing a model to make more than one save?

I interpret it the same way you do, the rules say nothing about forcing more saves. All they get to do is select which shot to save against on that one model.
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Old 29 Dec 2007, 04:18   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Forcing a model to make more than one save?

I kinda understand..I think I can help if I understand right..It's normaly you just take all 12 wounds and roll your saves and any that fail,fail, and you take the wounds not specific models,when it comes to squads.

Hope it helps? ;D

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Old 29 Dec 2007, 05:00   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Forcing a model to make more than one save?

That rule exists to make it a little easier to kill the one guy with the missile launcher in a squad of 16 lasguns or something. It is as you are thinking...

IF there are as many wounding hits as models
THEN one specific model can be forced to make a save.

It's only one specific model that has to make a save, and the owner gets to decide which weapon he saves against, assuming there are more than one kind pointed at him. Since it's likely an important model being singled out, the owning player will usually take a weapon he gets a good save against, but even making that save won't necessarily keep him alive. If an 8 member squad takes 12 wounding hits, the attacker can pick one model to save, and the defender can pick the weapon he saves against. If the save succeeds that model isn't dead yet, but if saves from the 11 remaining wounding hits produce 8 or more actual wounds, then the whole squad is dead, including the guy who was singled out earlier.
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Old 29 Dec 2007, 08:14   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Forcing a model to make more than one save?

He shouldn't be able to choose the weapons he saves against because the rule book states that shots come in "sets", each set will have all the same weapons and all the same BSs. Either that or you can use different coloured dice.

Either way, the firer only gets to choose 1 model if one of the sets has more wounding hits than there are models. Therefore if two sets (from the same squad) both have as many wounding hits as there are models then the firer can choose 1 model to take the save for each set.
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Old 29 Dec 2007, 11:37   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Forcing a model to make more than one save?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Grand Seer
He shouldn't be able to choose the weapons he saves against because the rule book states that shots come in "sets", each set will have all the same weapons and all the same BSs. Either that or you can use different coloured dice.

Either way, the firer only gets to choose 1 model if one of the sets has more wounding hits than there are models. Therefore if two sets (from the same squad) both have as many wounding hits as there are models then the firer can choose 1 model to take the save for each set.
I don't think this matches the example written for that rule (pg 27). In the example, a marine squad is wounded with three different weapons (all different S and AP) which inflict 7 wounds on a 5 man squad. The shooting player nominates a model in the targeted unit to make an armor save (a marine with a special weapon) and then the targeted player chooses which of those seven wounds the nominated model will save against. By your description a unit of 5 could theoretically take 8 wounds (as 4 wounds each with two "sets" of weapons) and not give the shooter the option to nominate.

Let's leave BS, S and AP out of the equation for a second. If, for instance, a bunch of Dire Avengers happened to score 40 shooting wounds against a squad of 10 tactical marines and the Eldar player wanted to get rid of the guy in the squad toting the plasma cannon, how many times would plasma cannon guy need to roll an armor save?
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Old 29 Dec 2007, 18:27   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Forcing a model to make more than one save?

Quote:
Let's leave BS, S and AP out of the equation for a second. If, for instance, a bunch of Dire Avengers happened to score 40 shooting wounds against a squad of 10 tactical marines and the Eldar player wanted to get rid of the guy in the squad toting the plasma cannon, how many times would plasma cannon guy need to roll an armor save?
Him specifically, just one. If he fails that he's dead. Then you roll the remaining 39 saves. The remaining 39 hits could still wipe out the squad, though, and in that case the guy with the plasma is still dead.
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Old 29 Dec 2007, 23:00   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Forcing a model to make more than one save?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hakoMike
how many times would plasma cannon guy need to roll an armor save?
He can only be picked out once regardless of how many wounds the squad takes (from one unit), and be hit by the weapon of your choice (if your the owner of the model). Their is no rule allowing your opponent to pick out that model again to take more wounds individually. So the Plasma guy would take one individual save, then you'd do the rest of the saving throws for the other 39 wounds, and apply them however you see fit.
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Old 30 Dec 2007, 14:29   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Forcing a model to make more than one save?

And the player that is being shot at gets to choose which weapon he saves against. So, if a Space Marine unit of five gets wounded from a lascannon and 20 lasguns, then the Space Marine player will likely save against a lasgun. Then one Marine, if they are not in cover, will get vaped by the lascannon, and then the rest save against 19 lasgun shots.
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Old 30 Dec 2007, 15:36   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Forcing a model to make more than one save?

Yep thats, if you cause the same or more amount of wounds on a unit from one unit, then you may nominate a model to take a save, your opponent then makes a save choosing which weapon to save it on, its same for close combat too, but from a single initiative
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