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Seeing through Area Terrain
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Old 19 Dec 2007, 14:51   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Seeing through Area Terrain

OK We all know that you can not see into more than 6" of area terrain, and can not see through area terrain no matter how thin it is.

The question is, Is the 6" limit cumulative or does it apply to each piece of area terrain?

Example:* Unit A in 4" in a clump of trees.* Unit B is 3" in a building.* Can these two units see and therefor fire at each other?* This is not a Cities of Death game, just a regular 40K game.*

I have heard both ways in games, and was wondering if anyone knew either from a FAQ, or an exact page number from the book.



Thanks
David

Edited because I forgot to spell check.
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Old 19 Dec 2007, 15:48   #2 (permalink)
Kai
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Default Re: Seeing through Area Terrain

I can't give you a page numer, but in our crash course at the shop just prior to 4th Eds release we were definalty told it was done by each peice of terrain seperately (so yes in your example). I hope someone else can be more precise
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Old 19 Dec 2007, 15:56   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Seeing through Area Terrain

you don't add it up, you can see out six inches and then see in six inches too, it'll be in area terrain bit, but i know its right
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Old 19 Dec 2007, 17:24   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Seeing through Area Terrain

On page 11 of CoD it says though that "the space marine can shoot at Genestealer A as his line of sight does not pass through more than 6" of area terrain."

Using RAW with this rule, the "pass through" bit means that you must add them.

In JBunny's example, A is 4" into trees B is 3" into building, the shot must pass through 7" of terrain.

But then of course this is using CoD.

I would say though that this is clearly how it is intended to be played.



Just looked at the BGB and it says "it is possible to see up to 6" into area terrain" using RAW this means into and does not include the terrain the firer's in (although later on it says you cannot shoot out of over 6" of terrain. However, the intention is clearly that you cannot shoot through more than 6" of terrain and GW's bad proof-readers didn't notice this.
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Old 19 Dec 2007, 18:16   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Seeing through Area Terrain

I'd say you don't add them up. TBH it really only makes things more complicated as you'll have to measure from each model to see just how much of the enemy squad they can hit. Very tedious IMO if your going to try to follow the strict wording of the rule, which again is only in CoD, not the BGB.
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Old 20 Dec 2007, 15:07   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Seeing through Area Terrain, shooting rules attached!

ERHM? what a good question!

we never even read it that way, but if the right angle on context is used then it certainly can be confusing.

To eliminate complications (lost in reference to other post), we will just state how it works.

you can see 6" INTO Area terrain, and you can wound anybody IN LINE OF SIGHT, IN WEAPONS RANGE, AND IS A VIABLE TARGET.


thus, DO NOT COUNT THE SPACE OF AREA TERRAIN YOU ARE IN. It is the same "shoot into area terrain rule for a fireing squad wether they are in the open or in terrain themselves

here is 3 easy steps to go through when conducting the given scenario.



#1 shoot out of terrain. if a model is 6" or less from the terrains border then it may shoot out at anything in range & line of sight

#2 shoot into terrain. any enemy model that is in range and line of sight may be targeted, when a model is 6" or less "DEEP" into the terrain from the edge closest to the shooting squad, it becomes a viable target. (thus: make sure there is at least 1 viable target first, check for line of sight, check for range,.)

#3 shoot as normal, apply all wounds to VIABLE TARGETS ONLY (so anybody deeper then 6" can not recieve a wound!) then apply all cover saves and remove casualties.


hope that clears it up!


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Old 20 Dec 2007, 21:23   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Seeing through Area Terrain

Maybe someone can clear this up for me, but one of my gaming buddies told me that you cannot see through a piece of terrain, even if if it is less than 6", if I am on one side of the terrain and my opponent is on the other side of it.

So, he says, even if the terrain is 3", I cannot shoot at him if neither he or I are in the terrain and the terrain is inbetween us.

True?
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Old 20 Dec 2007, 21:32   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Seeing through Area Terrain

My understanding is you agree on terrain rules with your opponent before the roll for deployment zones are made.

This is because some area terrain is "intended" for use as one large piece of terrain, like two or three small sections of wood clumped together. Players need to agree whether those smaller pieces count as individual pieces of terrain (which would result in some/all of it not being area terrain, or "true" LoS), or whether the "whole" counts as area. In the latter case- LoS and movement would be determined along the borders of the "whole".

This is extremely important when playing in tournaments, especially if you are playing in a new club/store. You should ALWAYS go over terrain rules with your opponent before beginning.

-Yriel
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Old 21 Dec 2007, 05:25   #9 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Seeing through Area Terrain

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidgr33n
Maybe someone can clear this up for me, but one of my gaming buddies told me that you cannot see through a piece of terrain, even if if it is less than 6", if I am on one side of the terrain and my opponent is on the other side of it.

So, he says, even if the terrain is 3", I cannot shoot at him if neither he or I are in the terrain and the terrain is in between us.

True?
Your opponent has it correct. If two models are each behind, not in, area terrain and it is only 1/2 inch wide, they can't see each other. If .05 inches of one model is in the terrain, they can see each other.

Yriel has it right though. The types of terrain and how they affect the game should be discussed before the game. This is especially true if playing against someone new. There is nothing worse than arguing whether or not a certain unit can be shot, when it could have been straightened out before the game.
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