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Old 07 Dec 2007, 09:06   #1 (permalink)
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Default Imperial Armour

Are the imperial armour books' models legal to use in a normal games of 40K (the reason i ask is that apoc unit (land raider terminus, baneblade etc) technically cant be used in normal games (as per the apoc book rule) so can you use the baneblade in normal games but use the IA rules?) also can flyers be used ina normal games, they ar ein IA and apoc aswell
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Old 07 Dec 2007, 09:32   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Imperial Armour

Yes, but you need your opponents permission first.

IA was designed to be used in 40k
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Old 07 Dec 2007, 22:48   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Imperial Armour

Last time I checked (quite a while ago), the super-heavies require being in their own Force Organization Chart as well.
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Old 08 Dec 2007, 02:33   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Imperial Armour

Most super heavies do indeed require their own detatchment.

However as for using them in games of 40k IA units need opponents permission but have been designed with 40ks rules in mind. However Apocalypse units can be used as well if your opponent agrees, that isn't what they were designed for but I imagine more people have access to the Apocalypse rules than they do the IA rules and to avoid confusion using one set might be the best way to go as long as all players involved agree and it would probably be a good idea to make sure both sides are using a super heavy of some sort.

After all if your going to be spending the money on a super heavy, even the new and cheaper Baneblade, you might as well use it.
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Old 11 Dec 2007, 15:33   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Imperial Armour

The way it works now is Forge World have released an Imperial Armour Apocalypse book. This has a huge selection of their models (all current 40k stock that i can see that isn't in GWs apoc book) as datasheets. Plus it has some new formations to field.

So for apocalypse you now use this book.

So what about the old Imperial Armour books?
You can still use these, and the rules inside in normal 40k games. However as mentioned most super heavies need to be fielded as a 2nd detachment, so you're looking at over 2500pts... n

Now you have to ask yourself is there any point in AI 40k games when you can play Apoc at 3000pts? I think the answer is yes there is a point. AI 40k rules are based on 6x4 tables. For instance the hierophant in IA4 moves 6" and assaults 6". Which is fine for a 6x4 board. In apocalypse it moves 12 and can fleet 2D6 and assault 6" so it has to be played on at least 8x6" board.

But its not just the table size problem that gives AI 40k an edge over apoc, its also the fact that the rules are more detailled in AI. For instance the trygon in AI4 has detailled rules about deepstriking into enemy units and engaging them n combat straight away. The apoc rules for the trygon found in AI Apoc book just uses the deepstrike rules (ie. destroyed if lands on an enemy model). This is to scale up the game. In apoc you should be looking at fielding 3 trygons. Where as AI 40k 1 trygon is enough to do its job. AI4 also uses mass point rules to represent the toughness of the nids. Where as apoc has removed the mass points to speed things up.



Conclusion
If you want to play big games, you have the space and you're not fussed about winning, play apoc. Its fun.

If you want to play more competitive 2500pt+ games with multiple detachments which adhere to FOC rules, with lots of detail and special rules, and you like things to be more balanced play AI 40k.

Me?... I'll be playing apocalypse from now on.
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Old 13 Dec 2007, 15:06   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Imperial Armour

That was a bullshit assessment.

If you wanted a "competitive" 3,000 point army, Forgeworld is the last place you go! Forgeworld has always been about fielding really awesome units. More often than not, Forgeworld vehicles are overpriced for what they do (although later vehicles do seem to have reasonable price tags...). You don't take a Promethius to get some sort of "tactical edge", because a Crusader does everything it can, and more, and more efficiently, for less cost. Why do you take a Prometheus then? Because it is the sexiest Land Raider model you can buy.

If you want a competitive game, play Apocalypse. If you want something that will visually dominate the tabletop, but will be more than fair Rulewise, use Imperial Armour, and don't play as Tyranids. :
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Old 13 Dec 2007, 15:14   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Imperial Armour

But the models are the same in Apoc or IA. So playing imperial armour rules just because the models will "visually dominate" is a shit assessment.
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Old 13 Dec 2007, 15:28   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Imperial Armour

I for one like the IA40k rules much better then the Apoc rules. I understand the streamlined assessment and I agree with it. Still the old books did the units much more justice. Also as Wargamer stated, IA units aren't necessarily used in competitive environments. They're simply available if you're playing a large game and you want a great and different model.

In an open setting where anyone can sign up for a huge megabattle (my store had a 30 person one last year with close to 4000 points per person) Force Org Charts are nice to stop those 13 year old kids from bringing Six Crusaders against an Ork player. IA40k is nice in that your points level can still be high, restrictions are still in place, and yet you can still use characterful units.

Apoc is all about having fun, but at lower level Apoc games (3000 per side) I'd much rather use the old IA rules...
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Old 13 Dec 2007, 15:35   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Imperial Armour

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gareth
But the models are the same in Apoc or IA. So playing imperial armour rules just because the models will "visually dominate" is a shit assessment.
I would imagine he means in a normal 40k game, you might see one FW model, which will visually dominate. But in Apoc, when each side has more baneblades than they do fingers, its a whole lot less impressive.

I wish the Apoc rules had been better thought out. As it stands, most stuff is vastly, sickeningly underpointed for what it can do, which is fine in a Baneblade vs baneblade way, but if you only have regular stuff, then you're getting the short end of the stick. The stuff that isn't has just gotten "streamlined" (read: Removal of anything characterful) and boring.

IA rules are by far better written, and only complicated to a 3 year old. GW would have been wise to use normal FW rules for them, and add in the funky turn/deployment and assets parts :

Quote:
Apoc is all about having fun, but at lower level Apoc games (3000 per side) I'd much rather use the old IA rules...
Once you have played a basic Apoc game at 3k per side, you can clearly see it is not meant for that, it is meant for around 10-12k a side.
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Old 13 Dec 2007, 15:46   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Imperial Armour

Very interesting points guys. I think everyone is right in their own way and it shows that the 40k game is fragmenting into different areas with different rules and different approaches, its all a little too grey atm....

Remember 3rd addition trial assault rules? Before a game you had to agree which set of rules you were playing. Either rulebook or trial assault rules. I'm seeing the same thing for 40k, but instead of variations for core rules, its variations on models... The FW AI Tyranid Rules are different to the Apoc rules. The AI Apoc rules for hellstrikes, are different to the GW Apoc book hellstrikes. GW apoc book trygon says use AI4, but the trygon in AI Apoc is different... all of a sudden we have messy situations...
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