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questions about special close combat weapons
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Old 04 Dec 2007, 05:06   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default questions about special close combat weapons

I play tau (if that doesn't say "I know hardly anything about special close combat weapons" then I don't know what does) I usually play with generally experienced players that know all of the rules for their models. I know how all my tau models work and they know how all their models work, so we go about our business accepting that whatever each other says and does is truth and goes along with the rules. Now, however I have a friend who is new to the game and doesn't understand how to use power weapons and such in close combat. I never studied the special close combat weapon rules too well since the tau don't have any and now that I read the rule book it doesn't make any sense.

Here are the questions I have.

If a model has a special close combat weapon that increases the models strength, does the model get to make all (if it has multiple attacks) of its attacks with that strength or just one? Does the player have to choose to either use the special weapon to attack or perform the models normal attacks, or can the player perform both in a single close combat turn.

If a model has a special close combat weapon that has a different initiative then the models regular attack does the model attack with its regular attacks with the standard initiative and attack with the special weapon once at its initiative, perform all of its attacks with the special weapons initiative, or only perform one type of attack with the same initiative (either perform its normal attacks or use the special weapon for one attack but not both)?

If a model has two special close combat weapons that give different changes in the models stats (either strength, or initiative, or wound on a roll of ... that sort of stuff but each weapon does not offer the same ability) do the weapons compliment each other and are both used at the same initiative with both abilities used at the same time, both used but as its own separate attack, one or the other used once, or one or the other used for every attack (if the model has multiple attacks)?

If a model has a special close combat weapon and another regular close combat weapon, that would give it the +1 attack due to duel wielding, is this extra attack used like an attack with the special weapon or just as a standard attack? what if the model was duel wielding the same special close combat weapon (as an example I think the eldar howling banshee exarch duel wields power weapons)?

Answers to these questions and any other helpful information about special close combat weapons would be appreciated.
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Old 04 Dec 2007, 06:13   #2 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: questions about special close combat weapons

Quote:
Originally Posted by cruton
I play tau (if that doesn't say "I know hardly anything about special close combat weapons" then I don't know what does) I usually play with generally experienced players that know all of the rules for their models. I know how all my tau models work and they know how all their models work, so we go about our business accepting that whatever each other says and does is truth and goes along with the rules. Now, however I have a friend who is new to the game and doesn't understand how to use power weapons and such in close combat. I never studied the special close combat weapon rules too well since the tau don't have any and now that I read the rule book it doesn't make any sense.
Well first and foremost reading the rulebook and looking up the pertinent sections would have answered all of these questions for you, but I'll answer them anyway, this time. I do suggest however that if you do not have a core rulebook that you get it. There is no substitute for reading the rules yourself, and for having a rulebook handy. Everybody makes mistakes. Some... intentionally, others not. But it's always good to check.

Quote:
Here are the questions I have.

If a model has a special close combat weapon that increases the models strength, does the model get to make all (if it has multiple attacks) of its attacks with that strength or just one? Does the player have to choose to either use the special weapon to attack or perform the models normal attacks, or can the player perform both in a single close combat turn.
All of a models attacks are made with the special close combat weapon unless otherwise specified. The model can choose not to use the Special Close Combat weapon, or to choose one or the other if the model has two different ones (but not both). However one cannot mix and match. So say a Space Marine Veteran Sergeant with a Power Fist and a bolt pistol gets 4 attacks on the charge. If he uses his Power Fist he strikes at Strength 8 and Initiative 1, he can choose however not to use the Power Fist and strike at his normal strength and with no bonus' for power weapons.

Quote:
If a model has a special close combat weapon that has a different initiative then the models regular attack does the model attack with its regular attacks with the standard initiative and attack with the special weapon once at its initiative, perform all of its attacks with the special weapons initiative, or only perform one type of attack with the same initiative (either perform its normal attacks or use the special weapon for one attack but not both)?
As above all attacks are done with the special weapon if any are, initiative detriments are a balancing factor, if the model wishes to attack with the special weapon all it's attacks must use it, or it can choose not to. But again no mixing and matching.

Quote:
If a model has two special close combat weapons that give different changes in the models stats (either strength, or initiative, or wound on a roll of ... that sort of stuff but each weapon does not offer the same ability) do the weapons compliment each other and are both used at the same initiative with both abilities used at the same time, both used but as its own separate attack, one or the other used once, or one or the other used for every attack (if the model has multiple attacks)?
No weapon abilities do not stack. For instance a model with a power fist and a lightning claw. The model can opt to use one or the other. If it uses the Power Fist the model strikes at it's greater strength and lower initiative. If it chooses to use the lightning claw it strikes at normal strength and initiative and gets to re-roll all to wound dice. But not both. The model must choose. There is only 1 exception to this rule that I know of and that is Logan Grimnar, and he is as I said an exception.

Quote:
If a model has a special close combat weapon and another regular close combat weapon, that would give it the +1 attack due to duel wielding, is this extra attack used like an attack with the special weapon or just as a standard attack? what if the model was duel wielding the same special close combat weapon (as an example I think the eldar howling banshee exarch duel wields power weapons)?
Attacks are not split, the 2nd cc weapon confers a +1 attack bonus, if the first cc weapon is a special cc weapon then all attacks would use the abilities of that special close combat weapon. As before no mixing.

That said how has your gaming group been playing special cc weapons that these questions come up?
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Old 04 Dec 2007, 14:49   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: questions about special close combat weapons

Thanks for the info Vash.
Like I said earlier we pretty much just accepted that what ever the anyone said or did was true. Everyone I previously faced who used cc weapons had full understanding of cc weapons of all types so I didn't see any reason to learn about them myself since the tau don't have any with the exception of Farsight's dawn blade, and it has an explanation right in the codex. For the last week or so most of the people i usually play with have been ridiculously busy so I decided to battle against some one new to war hammer and thats when problems arose.
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Old 06 Dec 2007, 01:06   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: questions about special close combat weapons

Quote:
Originally Posted by cruton
Thanks for the info Vash.
Like I said earlier we pretty much just accepted that what ever the anyone said or did was true. Everyone I previously faced who used cc weapons had full understanding of cc weapons of all types so I didn't see any reason to learn about them myself since the tau don't have any with the exception of Farsight's dawn blade, and it has an explanation right in the codex. For the last week or so most of the people i usually play with have been ridiculously busy so I decided to battle against some one new to war hammer and thats when problems arose.
When i first played against my brothers tau he didn't understand it either. Quite funny. silly tau player. :
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Old 06 Dec 2007, 04:00   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: questions about special close combat weapons

Personally I would suggest that Tau players know more about close combat than a World Eaters player. There are many tricks one can use when one fully understands the mechanics of Close Combat and all the various special weapons.
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Old 06 Dec 2007, 22:25   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: questions about special close combat weapons

Thats only because they get hit by them the most. I can see your point.

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