Tau Empire Codex 2013 | Army Builder Program
Dark Angels Codex 2013
Chaos Daemons Codex 2013
Chaos Space Marines Codex 2012

Warhammer 40k Forum Tau Online

 

Warhammer 40K Forum

deathwing rules question
Reply
Old 19 Nov 2007, 11:02   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 1,165
Default deathwing rules question

reference equipping the deathwing, i was wondering how strict tournaments were on the loadout of a deathwing squad.


basically, i have enough models for any configuration of thunderhammer/storm shield, lightning claws or powerfist and i was wondering if it is legal to swap them about in-between games.


so if my first game were against troop heavy marines - lightning claws all the way (with obligatory heavy weapon with powerfist) and then my next game were against an armoured company (or equiv) then thunderhammers would make an apearence.



i cant see anything wrong with doing this - it just doesnt seem right
__________________
El Magnifico is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 Nov 2007, 11:08   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 750
Default Re: deathwing rules question

No, swapping ANYTHING between tournamental games is cheating. Plain and simple.

You write a list, have it checked by the judges beforehand and then you stick to it each and every game.

Greetz, Trogdor
__________________
Gamestatistics 07:

[WHFB] Dwarfs
9 victorious slaughters/ 7wins/ 5 draws/ 7 losses

[WH40k] Tau
17victorious slaughters/ 10wins/ 2draw/ 1 loss
Trogdor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 Nov 2007, 11:11   #3 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Retired back into the depths of the Internets.
Posts: 6,440
Send a message via MSN to mace
Default Re: deathwing rules question

It depends on the tournament. Some are strict in that you bring one list to the tournament beforehand (and often with multiple copies - one for yourself, your opponents, and the judges) - and that is the only list you use during the tournament - no tweaking or altering of the army list during the tournament from that point onwards. That generally means everything has to be WYSIWYG.

So to answer your question - it does depend on the tournament rules, but generally such swapping of models isn't allowed. It's up to you to make a list that can deal any army you expect to face, though that does seem like a bit of an ideal.

[hr]

Edit: taking into account Trogdor's post, actually that's probably the case 99.9% of the time. Judges don't have the time to go check the validity of your list at each round, and it would be too hard to take into account every single list you use in giving a score for Army Composition. So you should just have one list, with no changes in between games.
__________________
mace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 Nov 2007, 13:00   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 1,165
Default Re: deathwing rules question

for the sake of sportmanship, i will refain from doing this but i would like a ruling (or rather, a general consensus) on it.


my armylist will simply be:

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'my list'
elites - deathwing terminator squad - 235pts
- cyclone missile launcher

unless i am required to list EVERY man's equipment for the entire army (which i am pretty sure i am NOT required to do), then my list is 100% accurate whether i field 5 thunderhammers or 5 lightning claws.

it is similar to the whirlwind - where the missiles you use are chosen before the game. but the whirlwind has a line stating that this must be done.


again - for the sake of sportmanship, i will not do this (thunderhammer for the cyclone guy, lightning claws for the rest me thinks ) and i will add it to my list of RAW issues
__________________
El Magnifico is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 Nov 2007, 13:23   #5 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,741
Default Re: deathwing rules question

This isn't a RAW issue, just make sure before you go to a tournemant (of any kind) you make sure what their rules are on lists, and possibly changing them. It's not something anyone can give an definitive answer on, because it changes between each tournament.

If it's a RTT it'll make it all the easier, since you can walk right up the the host and present your problem. A GT will probally require finding a rules PDF on the GW site.
Droids_Rule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 Nov 2007, 13:33   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 750
Default Re: deathwing rules question

Quote:
unless i am required to list EVERY man's equipment for the entire army (which i am pretty sure i am NOT required to do), then my list is 100% accurate whether i field 5 thunderhammers or 5 lightning claws.
Yes you are required to list EVERY option you took. You cannot simply say 5 SM with heavy weapon, or 10 orks with special weapon.

So with Deathwing you have to state for each unit which weapons have been chosen.

As Droids_Rule said: This is not a matter of RAW, the rules are 100% clear: Do not change your list. As easy as that.

Greetz, Trogdor
__________________
Gamestatistics 07:

[WHFB] Dwarfs
9 victorious slaughters/ 7wins/ 5 draws/ 7 losses

[WH40k] Tau
17victorious slaughters/ 10wins/ 2draw/ 1 loss
Trogdor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 Nov 2007, 13:48   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 1,165
Default Re: deathwing rules question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trogdor
Quote:
unless i am required to list EVERY man's equipment for the entire army (which i am pretty sure i am NOT required to do), then my list is 100% accurate whether i field 5 thunderhammers or 5 lightning claws.
Yes you are required to list EVERY option you took. You cannot simply say 5 SM with heavy weapon, or 10 orks with special weapon.
you seem to have completely misread my post.

i am not suggesting i do the following:

Quote:
deathwing squad - 1 guy with special weapon - dunno points

again, this is my armylist (in full)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'my list'

HQ - Company Captain - 130pts
- thunderhammer


HQ - Grey Knight Grand Master - 165pts
- psychic hood


Elites - Deathwing terminator squad - 235pts
- cyclone missile launcher


Elites - dreadnought - 150pts
- venerable
- heavy flamer


Troops - 10 man tactical squad - 255pts
- lascannon
- melta gun
- powerfist
- rhino transport


Troops - 10 man tactical squad - 255pts
- lascannon
- melta gun
- powerfist
- rhino transport


heavy support - land raider - 250pts


heavy support - land raider - 250pts


heavy support - land raider crusader - 250pts


total - 1500pts

so then - the list is perfectly legal and details every upgrade i have purchased.


it would get very cluttered if i had to write every frag/krak grenade, bolter etc on there so i cant see why i would need to list individuals' equipment.



but yet:

Quote:
Yes you are required to list EVERY option you took. You cannot simply say 5 SM with heavy weapon, or 10 orks with special weapon.
this is the exact opposite of what i am doing. i have listed every option i have taken.



the same argument can be presented about sammael and belial - do you HAVE to state that you will use the jetbike or the speeder (or which weapon loadout belial has) or do you simply put:

HQ - sammael - xxxpts
__________________
El Magnifico is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 Nov 2007, 13:54   #8 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,741
Default Re: deathwing rules question

I'd advise on writing each and every piece of changable equipment on the unit. By that, I mean equipment that you had to decide on (such as Chainsword OR Bolter - pick one, Blood Angels Jump Pack OR Drop Pod - pick one) or bought (yes, even the Bolt Pistol).

The reason for this is apparent in your list, the the whole reason for this discussion, the list oculd be totally different if you decide on different weapons, none of which are actually written on your list, giving you the options of all sorts of hell.

If you're going to a tournament, right the list out in full, from top to bottom. :-\
Droids_Rule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 Nov 2007, 14:16   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 1,165
Default Re: deathwing rules question

so:


[quote='what my list would look like']

HQ - Company Master - 130pts
- bolt Pistol
- Thunderhammer
- iron halo
- power armour
- rites of battle
- and they shall know no fear

HQ - Grey Knight Grand Master - 165pts
- stormbolter
- nemesis force weapon
- terminator armour
- psychic hood
- the shrouding
- the aegis
- daemonic infestation


Elites - deathwing terminator squad - 235pts
1st man - cyclone missile launcher
- thunderhammer/stormshield
- terminator armour
- fearless
- deathwing assault
- and they shall know no fear

2nd man - lightning claws
- terminator armour
- fearless
- deathwing assault
- and they shall know no fear

3rd man - lightning claws
- terminator armour
- fearless
- deathwing assault
- and they shall know no fear

4th man - lightning claws
- terminator armour
- fearless
- deathwing assault
- and they shall know no fear

5th man - lightning claws
- terminator armour
- fearless
- deathwing assault
- and they shall know no fear

Elites - Dreadnought - 150pts
- assault cannon
- heavy flamer
- dreadnought close combat weapon
- venerable
- smoke launchers
- searchlight


troops - 10 man tactical squad - 255pts



i'm getting bored (and i seriously cant be bothered to list 20 marines worth of equipment). this is surely overkill on list writing??
__________________
El Magnifico is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 Nov 2007, 14:19   #10 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,741
Default Re: deathwing rules question

That's not what I asked for. I ment equipment, and things that can change from list to list. Obviously every Deathwing unit will have Terminator Armour and ATSKNF, but things like Lightning Claws or Thunder Hammers, or equipment on Heroes and Sergeants can change, and as thus need to be recorded on the list. :-\
Droids_Rule is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Deathwing FTW!!!!!! pure deathwing army list 1000pts paddyxg Space Marines Army Lists 2 04 Nov 2008 08:04
Question about Raven and DeathWing Angel of Death Space Marines 14 15 Oct 2008 00:16
Bat. Rep. Hot Deathwing on Deathwing action! Bustafer Jones Space Marines Army Lists 0 14 Feb 2007 18:16
Trial Deathwing list using the current rumors (Pure Deathwing) Howloutloud Space Marines Army Lists 0 30 Dec 2006 12:23
Rules Question. (possible noob question) TheLetterV Tau 8 22 Dec 2006 23:34