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Sweeping Advances - kinda broke?
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Old 05 Nov 2007, 16:04   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Sweeping Advances - kinda broke?

Well, I'm relatively new to 40k. I've owned an army for about 2 years now, but only really started playing this year.

Anyway, from what I've come to understand, the Sweeping Advance rule was one of the new rules that came with 4th Ed. Now personally, I think the rule is sorta broke - most specifically against armies not geared for assault.

A scenario, for example, Tau vs. Marines. A squad of Fire Warriors will pick off a few kills on a squad of Marines before they close into charge range. Lets say the Fire Warriors get lucky and pick off all but the Sergeant, who'll probably have a power weapon of some kind or another. Now the Serge is in charging range, does so, and in all probability will win combat, taking out a couple of Fire Warriors. In all probability, the FW's should pass their leadership, but there's still a pretty big percentage that they won't at Ld. 8.

So lets say they fail leadership and fall back. I2 vs. I5. If my opponent rolls a 1, I have a 50/50 chance of making it out of combat. Again, likelyhood is that the Marine will catch me. All of a sudden, a single model has just wiped an entire squadron.

To me, that just seems crazy. I could see sweeping advances working if the squad winning combat outnumbered the squad falling back, but the fact that a single model can wipe an entire squad just pushes it.

That's my reasoning, anyway. I wanted to bring this up to see what you vets have to say about it.
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Old 05 Nov 2007, 16:11   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Sweeping Advances - kinda broke?

There's already been a thread on this; use the Search function.
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Old 05 Nov 2007, 17:10   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Sweeping Advances - kinda broke?

I agree with LGT, but I just want to tackle a couple of points:

Marine Sergeants have I 4, not 5, unless you`re talking about Chaos Marines with the Mark of Slaanesh, or a Marine HQ.

Tau Firewarriors killed in CC: There are LOADS of ways around this.
1) Don`t get into CC: Old advice, I know. But with the help of a Skimmer Wall (formed with one or two Devilfish, etc) your FWs should be fairly save. In fact, the last gams I played, the only units which saw CC were my Kroot and 4 Crisis (There was an... accident on my account involving a deepstriking Cybot (its Dro Poid was deepstriking. NOT the Cybot itself , misplaced Crisis and terrible rolls with a Fusion Blaster...).

2) Make sure the opponent doesn`t get to roll for sweeping advance - just remove casualties from Base-to-base contact with the enemy unit. Accoring to the rules, the enemy cān`t make a sweeping advance roll now (Read through the CC section of your rulebook - carefully! It`s the most complicated section of the book, but also the most rewarding to completely understand).

Besides, Sweeping advance was much more broken in 3th Edition, so, I wouldn`t really complain...
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Old 05 Nov 2007, 17:51   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Sweeping Advances - kinda broke?

A single space marine made a sweeping advance on my squad of 13 Kroot when he had only killed 2
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Old 05 Nov 2007, 17:59   #5 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Sweeping Advances - kinda broke?

Don't call a rule broken simply because it is uncomfortable for the Tau.
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Old 05 Nov 2007, 19:01   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Sweeping Advances - kinda broke?

He's not saying its bad for the Tau, although it is bad for the Tau. He was just saying its silly that a single man can scatter and destroy a squad no matter what its size if he is a little better at CC
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Old 05 Nov 2007, 19:29   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Sweeping Advances - kinda broke?

When that man's a 7 foot tall* power armoured monstrosity capable of punching through the hull of a tank carrying what is essentially a laser sword, I don't really think it's such a stretch that he could singlehandedly wipe out a squad of fire warriors without even trying. You've got to put yourself in the shoes of the assaultees here. If anyone (they don't even have to be a space marine), charged into your squad by themself and killed 3 or 4 of you without getting hurt in return, would you stick around?
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Old 05 Nov 2007, 19:43   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Sweeping Advances - kinda broke?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoarday
When that man's a 7 foot tall  power armoured monstrosity capable of punching through the hull of a tank carrying what is essentially a laser sword, I don't really think it's such a stretch that he could singlehandedly wipe out a squad of fire warriors without even trying. You've got to put yourself in the shoes of the assaultees here. If anyone (they don't even have to be a space marine), charged into your squad by themself and killed 3 or 4 of you without getting hurt in return, would you stick around?
I'd shoot the bastard with my handy-dandy pulse rifle/carbine. It doesn't matter who he is; power armour isn't boltgun proof, and we're dealing with more firepower than that here.

However, since their use is strictly forbidden by the Ethereals at ranges under 10 m, I wouldn't have much choice but to retreat. :
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Old 05 Nov 2007, 22:47   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Sweeping Advances - kinda broke?

...or said unit can be a lowly Guardsmen, carrying only a lasgun, and a knife he can't seem to get out of its sheath.

Or, it could be a Tau Fire Warrior wiping an entire Guard squad. Or a Tau Battlesuit.

Either way, that's way too much for them to do, and to an extent, it is outrageous.
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Old 05 Nov 2007, 22:54   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Sweeping Advances - kinda broke?

The whole game seems to favour assault troops, not really my ised of what warfare in the future (or now for that matter) will be!

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