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Sweeping Advances - Broken?
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Old 13 Oct 2007, 01:15   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Sweeping Advances - Broken?

I just want to put forth this question - does the Sweeping Advance rule make assault more powerful than shooting? It seems to me that, because of Sweeping Advances, assault can be far more effective (with an assault-geared army) than shooting (with a shooting-geared army).
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Old 13 Oct 2007, 01:20   #2 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Sweeping Advances - Broken?

It's the cliched melee vs ranged balance. Melee is quick and furious, but needs to get past the shooter's firepower first.
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Old 13 Oct 2007, 01:47   #3 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Sweeping Advances - Broken?

To a degree, yes. Strong assault units can rip through an enemy's lines, often, becuase of the Initiative and not shooting into combat rules, without any return fire. The flip-side, however, is that with smart and careful planning, you can force them into the middle of massive cross-fires, lead them the wrong way at times, slow them down, speed them up in the wrong direction, etc. Assaults are great, but can be more easily counteracted IMO.
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Old 13 Oct 2007, 01:59   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Sweeping Advances - Broken?

The main reason its so effective is that the game mechanics are such that a bayonet charge is as effective as a short-ranged firefight involving, at the bare minimum, semi-automatic weapons that will leave football-sized holes in you.

To a certain point, the game favours melee over shooting, possibly because of a moronic belief that they need a focus on melee to get the sort of gritty feeling they're looking for.

But on the other hand, I wouldn't say it's terribly imbalanced.
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Old 13 Oct 2007, 05:58   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Sweeping Advances - Broken?

I think it's VERY powerful(being able to destroy a whole squad at once!), but checked by most armies having ATSKNF, fearless, or high leadership all-around the board. I do agree though, that it can feel as though this game's geared more towards assault/melee than shooting.
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Old 13 Oct 2007, 06:39   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Sweeping Advances - Broken?

As one who's had a group of 14 Kroot killed by a single Eldar shining spear, I can say "yes!" A bunch of 'em attacked a group of 20 Kroot, got wiped out to the last man but won the assault because they killed one more model. Kroot fail leadership and initiative, and bye bye. Very dumb. It'd be nice if you got leadership modifiers for outnumbering your enemy.
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Old 13 Oct 2007, 07:39   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Sweeping Advances - Broken?

i would agree, along with not being able to shoot into combat really, i mean come on, if 5 fire warriors are hopelessly outnumbered by a 10 man assault squad with a chaplain, those fire warriors are going to die anyway, for the greater good and all that....
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Old 13 Oct 2007, 09:32   #8 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Sweeping Advances - Broken?

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Originally Posted by macboy_geoff
As one who's had a group of 14 Kroot killed by a single Eldar shining spear, I can say "yes!" A bunch of 'em attacked a group of 20 Kroot, got wiped out to the last man but won the assault because they killed one more model. Kroot fail leadership and initiative, and bye bye. Very dumb. It'd be nice if you got leadership modifiers for outnumbering your enemy.
I feel your pain; I think the rules for fleeing combat (initiative value plus d6) make little sense compared to the old "run 2d6 inches and if your opponent rolls higher they catch you" but that complaint could have something to do with being a tau player. : The argument for my fire warriors being no matter how bad your depth perception and reaction times are, fear is a great motivator.

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Originally Posted by GeekyGator
To a degree, yes. Strong assault units can rip through an enemy's lines, often, because of the Initiative and not shooting into combat rules, without any return fire. The flip-side, however, is that with smart and careful planning, you can force them into the middle of massive crossfires, lead them the wrong way at times, slow them down, speed them up in the wrong direction, etc. Assaults are great, but can be more easily counteracted IMO.
I think that, one of the reasons people complain about assault being over powered is because said crossfire traps and wrong way leading antics are difficult to pull off with interfering outside factors ie. your opponent.
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Old 13 Oct 2007, 09:36   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Sweeping Advances - Broken?

Remember that being "run down" is not the same as being killed; in Fantasy, it states (or used to) that models who are caught by a pursuing unit will scatter, hide and generally get the heck off the battlefield as quickly as possible. So, whilst one Shining Spear can't run down and kill 20 Kroot, he can run down three or four, and the rest decide they aren't being paid enough to stick around for the rest of the fight.
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Old 13 Oct 2007, 09:42   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Sweeping Advances - Broken?

Ok, so we've come to the conclusion that kroot are great big chickens. :P
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