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Realistic Strengths and weaknesses of armies (fluff wise)
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Old 27 Sep 2007, 09:35   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Realistic Strengths and weaknesses of armies (fluff wise)

Ok, hold on, re-arrange the gears. This is not a min-maxing, power-gaming issue. This is a fluff based question. Well it involves rules, but that will come later.

First off, I'm working out a campaign system for my LGS that I want to try out. We've got a pretty cool map that my wife designed with a whole bunch of regions and cities and imperial markings all over it. During the campaign the idea is that it works more on a roleplaying system than a wargaming system.

For example, you could decide you want to invade an opponent's territory, but you don't want to perform a full scale attack, you first want to soften him up a bit. So you decide to do some recon first. You would for example propose to send in a 400 point combat patrol. You agree with your opponent that if you win, you get certain benefits, such as maybe a look at his army list before the next game or so forth.

Part of the campaign involves using 'Kill Teams' as commandos to perform certain tasks. While the range of what they can be sent off to do is as infinite as your imagination, I've created several 'standard' type raids, which if they succeed at, your opponent suffers the effects of being out of supplies such as fuel, ammunition or vehicle parts. These rules are based off the article in Black Gobbo seen here: http://us.games-workshop.com/games/4...es/default.htm

So far I have 6 things a kill team might target:

Ammunition Dumps
Food Supplies
Fuel Dumps
Vehicle Part storage
Medical Supplies
Living Amenities and stuff that raises morale.

In going through things, I realized, that realistically not everything fits with every army. For example Tyranids don't really get too perturbed if you blow up their fuel dumps, as they don't have vehicles. Space Marines can eat just about any substance if they need to. Necrons aren't going to have much of an issue if they run out of medical supplies and Orks are always patching their vehicles together out of scrap, so what do they care if they don't have actual spare parts?

So I decided to take a step back and try to figure out, in a realistic setting, what are the actual campaign strengths and weaknesses of each army. Ultimately the Tyranids are coming up as just about the most perfect army any commander could wish for. They shouldn't have to worry about morale, you can ALWAYS spawn more of them, no flying in re-inforcements from off planet, and all they need is access to a nice chunk of native biomass to convert into whatever they need.

So can anyone come up with the negatives for Tyranids if they were to actually invade a place? How about Orks? So far the only advantage I can see the Imperial Guard having is that their Lasguns should almost never run out of ammo, other than that, they're at the bottom of the heap.

Thoughts?
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Old 27 Sep 2007, 10:45   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Realistic Strengths and weaknesses of armies (fluff wise)

Hmm... interesting concept you have there. I'm sure the campaign will be lots of fun once you've got it up and running. As to your question: the Tyranids aren't all that perfect and they do have some weaknesses an enemy could exploit. They are reliant on synapse creatures to command the lesser bugs, they need spawning pools to create new monsters from harvested biomass, and they need to be guided to their destination by Genestealer vanguard broods. So your commando Kill-Team might go out to assassinate a particularly big synapse Nid, to destroy a spawning pool, to purge a nest of Genestealers, or heck, even to burn down a small, unimportant town to prevent the Nids from harvesting biomass. Plenty of BL books have loads on this - the newest Ciaphas Cain novel 'Duty Calls' is literally jam-packed with Nid-related stuff.

Orks are somewhat similar. Da Boyz is always fightin' wif each uvver so da Nobz an' Bosses have a hard time keeping them all in line! Were you to assassinate a bunch of espeically big Ork leaders, their underlings will quickly lose organisation and start bashing each other to find out who gets to be Boss next. Da Orkz also love to build idols of Gork and Mork all over the place - destroying these would be taken as a bad omen and weaken morale. And while Orks do piece together vehicles and weapons from just about any scrap they find, the actual building is generally left to da Mekz so destroying a Mekshop or killing a bunch of Mekboyz will cripple the Ork army's capability of churning out trukkz, kanz and gunz.

If you can be bothered, why not make a list of unique Kill-Team targets for each race? That would take more work, but will probably solve your problem nicely.
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Old 27 Sep 2007, 11:10   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Realistic Strengths and weaknesses of armies (fluff wise)

Here's some potential Tyranid missions for you...

Gaunt Nest: If destroyed, the Tyranids do not benefit from Without Number next game.

Hive Node: If destroyed, the Tyranid Synapse Range is reduced to 6" next game.

Tag the Bugs: The Kill Team must reach and "tag" an objective (a nest of Raveners, for example). If succesful, you may choose one of the following benefits:
1) Tyranids may not use Infiltrate.
2) When a Tyranid unit Deep Strikes, you may make a free round of shooting at the Tyranid unit with your nearest non-vehicle unit, counting the firing unit as stationary.

Nuke 'em! The Kill Team are going in on a Death or Glory mission! If the Kill Team succeed in detonating their explosives, you may remove one of their non-Synapse units from the next game.
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Old 27 Sep 2007, 17:06   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Realistic Strengths and weaknesses of armies (fluff wise)

The Imperial Guard would also have another advantage, at least if you're playing on an Imperial world: reinforcements. All they have to do is send off a recruiting party to the nearest town or city for some "volunteers" and bam, a whole heap of cannon fodder ready to march to their deaths.
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Old 27 Sep 2007, 18:48   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Realistic Strengths and weaknesses of armies (fluff wise)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasrkin
The Imperial Guard would also have another advantage, at least if you're playing on an Imperial world: reinforcements. All they have to do is send off a recruiting party to the nearest town or city for some "volunteers" and bam, a whole heap of cannon fodder ready to march to their deaths.
That's a good idea. Perhaps the IG player could include a free squad of 10 Conscripts if his Kill-Team manages to pull off some sort of infiltration missions, sneaking past enemy lines and into an un-touched Imperial community on the outskirts of the city.
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Old 28 Sep 2007, 03:16   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Realistic Strengths and weaknesses of armies (fluff wise)

Awesome, these are some great ideas. Thanks Wargamer, some great stuff going in. And Kasrkin, consider your idea nabbed.

The last one I'm struggling with is Eldar. I don't know all that much about them. What strengths and weaknesses would they have as a race in war?
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Old 28 Sep 2007, 17:05   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Realistic Strengths and weaknesses of armies (fluff wise)

Eldar: leaving for Wargamer

Tau: Against Guard: You could send out a commando partol to kill a Commisar or Priest so that the Guardsmen can turn to the Greater Good allowing the Tau to use Gue'la in your next mission. Also one Opponent Guard squad will not be availble in their next game along with their Commisar or Priest. Or on the opposite side, assasinate a Por to stop Imperial Citizens from turning to the Greater Good.

Against: Tau in general you could have a kill team sent to kill an Aun giving -1 leadership to all Tau units in the next game. Shas'o to Shas'la. Auxillary units unaffected. But after that game all Tau benfit from the rules in place for when an Aun dies from then on showing thier rage and devotion to the Aun.
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Old 28 Sep 2007, 17:06   #8 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Realistic Strengths and weaknesses of armies (fluff wise)

Maybe 'nids should only be able to bring in as many points at the end of each campaign turn as they killed of infantry.

I.E.

'nids kill 550 points, 150 are vehicles and 400 infantry. The 'nids have taken losses of 200 points.

[hr]

The 'nids can recoup their losses and take 200 points more 'nid for next turn.



Also, 'nids may only bring in new troops if they win the battle. (otherwise their biomass is lost)

Of course you have to factor in more 'nids landing.
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Old 28 Sep 2007, 17:43   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Realistic Strengths and weaknesses of armies (fluff wise)

Amour Maintaince Facility- When held, the ability to purchace upgrades for tanks(extra armour, AT shells, ect)

Heavy Grav world- The planet is unualy large, but still able to support life. The high gravity of this world makes it extremly difficult to move. All Infantry and creatures more 3' slower than normal in their movement and assualt phases. Skimmers and jump troops are badly hindered. Skimmers move as if they were normal moving tanks, but shoot as normal. All jump troops can only move maximum 6 inches during thier movemnet
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Old 28 Sep 2007, 17:51   #10 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Realistic Strengths and weaknesses of armies (fluff wise)

Wargamer's suggestions sound fairly heavy handed and anti-nid, and directly mess with points spent on an army.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wargamer
Gaunt Nest: If destroyed, the Tyranids do not benefit from Without Number next game.
many tyranid players don't use Without number anyway~ little benefit

Quote:
Hive Node: If destroyed, the Tyranid Synapse Range is reduced to 6" next game.
that's a pretty severe limitation. any gaunt-based army is going to have serious issues... and I mean REALLY serious issues. most gaunt broods will outdistance their synapse within 2 rounds, and holding back to stay in synapse range means they can't use their very short range guns. and this doesn't count the other effects of synapse. if you want to use this, I'd suggest not cutting the synapse range in half, and just cutting it back a little: 8 inches maybe.

Quote:
Tag the Bugs: The Kill Team must reach and "tag" an objective (a nest of Raveners, for example). If succesful, you may choose one of the following benefits:
1) Tyranids may not use Infiltrate.
2) When a Tyranid unit Deep Strikes, you may make a free round of shooting at the Tyranid unit with your nearest non-vehicle unit, counting the firing unit as stationary.
1: only 1 tyranid unit can use infiltrate: the broodlord. better to say that the army may not use deepstrike.
2: that will just about equal instant death to any tyranid unit that can deep strike. a free round of shooting? that's insane.

Quote:
Nuke 'em! The Kill Team are going in on a Death or Glory mission! If the Kill Team succeed in detonating their explosives, you may remove one of their non-Synapse units from the next game.
Strangely I don't really have a problem with this... as long as there are other things that opponents can do to remove units entirely.

~~~

this is my biggest issue with home-brew campaigns: balance.
how do you make it fair for all players? if I can start an attack with my kill team, and the potential results are: 1. make enemy suffer penalty or 2. no effect, then I'm CONSTANTLY going to be on the offensive.

to that end, there should be an element of risk for the person initiating the combat:
Kill team raids a necron energon-cube depot to blow it up.
Success: Necrons suffer the low ammo effect.
Failure: Necrons are alerted to impending attack and may set up their entire force after the attacking player deploys. Or Necrons must set up first, but are allowed hidden deployment.

Kill team raids an Imperial Guard CnC base.
Success: IG may not use Scouts, Infiltrate and Deep strike rules even if the mission allows it.
Failure: IG is able to summon an additional 10% of standard troop units to the battle.

if you read that mission all the way through, it assumes that even tyranids and necrons can run out of ammo. if you blow up a spawning pool or digestion pool, then the tyranids won't have enough bio-mass to grow the ammo that they're shooting.

I suspect you can break each race down into some basic stats, and then rate it on a scale. once you have those, you can see where they could be limited for game wise. THEN make fluff up to justify the resultant missions.
E.G.: (this is a rough estimate. don't take it as cannon)

Space Marines: (scale of 1-10)
Mobility: 6 (require vehicles to move quick and even those aren't all that great)
Armor: 8 (power armor and terminator armor is very good)
Weapon range: 6 (average and good, almost every weapon they have is 24" and greater)
Weapon power: 5 (consider the bolter and the lascannon to be the measuring stick)
Assault power: 5 (they CAN be an assault army, it just gets a little expensive)
Leadership: 9 (overall good LD stats with ATSSNF Universal Special Rule)

Tyranids:
Mobility: 9 (most units have fleet, and several have wings, leaping or beast rules)
Armor: 3 (the majority of models have a 5+ save or worse. only MCs have good or great armor)
Weapon range: 4 (most weapons are assault but suffer notably short ranges. There are some exeptions but they are few and expensive)
Weapon power: 6 (the weapons, when they do hit are surprisingly powerful, either by volume, pure strength or special rules)
Assault power: 8 (Primarily known as an assault army, they have the greatest access to rending and high WS/Init stats)
Leadership: 10 (synapse is probably one of the best leadership rules in the game, if properly handled)

looking at it this way also highlights what makes each army "special", which ones you can mess with and which ones you should use kid gloves on:

SM armor shouldn't really be messed with and they're unlikely to get demoralized at an army-level.
Tyranid synapse is very powerful but shouldn't be messed with too much, as it's a primary feature of the army.
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