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Could the templates reach where the eye does not?
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Old 23 Aug 2007, 23:29   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Could the templates reach where the eye does not?

I try to learn the rules myself before asking, but this question has been bothering me for a long time. Actually, it is a couple of questions/problem situations.

We assume that we're using the flamer.

@Suppose that we are in a forest. Assume that 3 of my troops can see 3 of the enemy troops (while both squads are, say, 10-strong). Normally I can only kill a maximum of 3 enemy troops, no matter how many wounds will I score. But, if my flamer template hits, say, 6 troops of the enemy squad, am I able to kill more of them? And if so, exactly how many? 6? 9?

@Suppose the flamer-armed trooper cannot see any enemies, but someone of his squad buddies can. Am I still entitled to fire the flamer, on the basis that one does not have to actually see anybody to fire it in the general direction of the enemy, and the flamer always hits, and does ignore cover anyway?

@Suppose there are two enemy squads, visible, in open terrain. I'm opening fire on one of them. Could I place the template in a way to hit models in the other squad?

@If it is so, does it hold true even if the other squad is invisible, for instance, hidden more than 6'' into the forest, directly behind the first squad?

@Final question: what does effectively block a flamer template? A tank does? A impassable, no-LOS terrain does?
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Old 23 Aug 2007, 23:45   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Could the templates reach where the eye does not?

1. The flamer could cause 6 casualties, in addition to any other casualties caused. Flamer casualties can come from anywhere in the unit, the other casualties must come from where there supposed to.

2. I'm not 100% sure, but I assume he can.

3. You must have the majority of the template on the targeted squad.

4. Yes.

5. Apparently, nothing, as it says that anything touched by the template is hit.
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Old 23 Aug 2007, 23:47   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Could the templates reach where the eye does not?

3. You must have the majority of the template be on the directed squad.
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Old 23 Aug 2007, 23:51   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Could the templates reach where the eye does not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legatus Glacies(Icer)
3. You must have the majority of the template be on the directed squad.
Thank you.
Fix'd.
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Old 24 Aug 2007, 01:27   #5 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Could the templates reach where the eye does not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Smirnov

@Final question: what does effectively block a flamer template? A tank does? A impassable, no-LOS terrain does?
Well, use your senses. Will a flamer really go through a high wall? While RAW says yes, cmon, flames don't go through the warp.

Anything "area" or obviously not solid, though, is fair game.
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Old 24 Aug 2007, 01:35   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Could the templates reach where the eye does not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by balistafreak
Well, use your senses. Will a flamer really go through a high wall? While RAW says yes, cmon, flames don't go through the warp.

Anything "area" or obviously not solid, though, is fair game.
How do you know that their not simply firing their stream of burning liquid over the wall (sort of like a flaming mortar ).
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Old 24 Aug 2007, 01:47   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Could the templates reach where the eye does not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpion Master (FT)
Quote:
Originally Posted by balistafreak
Well, use your senses. Will a flamer really go through a high wall? While RAW says yes, cmon, flames don't go through the warp.

Anything "area" or obviously not solid, though, is fair game.
How do you know that their not simply firing their stream of burning liquid over the wall (sort of like a flaming mortar ).
because that would help Rules Lawyers...
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Old 24 Aug 2007, 02:33   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Could the templates reach where the eye does not?

1. A bit odd, but as I see it, you can cause 6 casualties (make all the appropriate rolls etc.), but they can only be taken out from within LOS and Range (so you could only remove 3 models in the end). It's a but absurd, but IIRC RAW supports that method, and it is not unlike causing a lot of wounds on a squad, but only having range/LOS to less models then the wounds made. Those models are killed, and the extra wounds are wasted.

2. I don't think so. If a model doesn't have LOS, it's an automatic miss.

5. I'd assume anything you can't see through, blocks it. The flamer should still be restricted by LOS and Range just like any other weapon.
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Old 25 Aug 2007, 01:11   #9 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Could the templates reach where the eye does not?

I came up with a some sort of house rule:

If firing from a squad that has any flamers, or any other weapons which use flamer template, hit automatically and ignore cover:
1. Place the template/s on the target unit. Flamers who do not see any model in the enemy unit cannot shoot, but the others hit all models their templates touch, regardless of actual LOS.
2.Roll to-wound and saves. The maximum number of casaulties is the number of models touched by at least one template.
3.Remove casaulties.
4.Fire with all the other weapons as normal, after checking the LOS which could have been changed by the previous attack.

Alternate rule is:
Flamer templates cannot touch models which are not visible to flamer troopers.
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Old 25 Aug 2007, 16:33   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Could the templates reach where the eye does not?

5. Use common sense, a flamer can't go through a 10 foot high brick wall, but it would easily go though a jungle

My house rule for flamers is this:
1. Flamers can't go through solid cover which blocks line of sight (tall walls, tanks, big rocks, etc.)
2. But they can hit units they can't see though jungles/woods on a 4+ roll as long as the models are in range
(the idea being that the flamer man knows they are in there, but is just randomly firing bouts of flame not knowing where they are exactly)

(If you wanted to get really realistic, if the unit in the woods being shot at didn't move or shoot the last turn, they can't be shot at by the flamer b/c they are just hiding, not making noise)

3. Roll to wound and save as normal
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