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Want to bring back the squats/demiurg?
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Old 18 Aug 2007, 23:31   #1 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Want to bring back the squats/demiurg?

http://www.petitiononline.com/squat/petition.html

Sign that thingy. Just randomly found it. Let's bring our space-stunties with bolters back!!
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Old 18 Aug 2007, 23:54   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Want to bring back the squats/demiurg?

They were a bad idea, imo. Space Dwarfs? Come on! 40K is not just WHFB "in space"; it is a completely different universe.

This fantasy crossovers are just bad for the fluff. Examples?

Eldar. Everyone looks at them and says: "Oh, my! They`re elfs! Surely they must be selfless saviours of the universe, sacrificing their lives for the lesser beings!", when in reality, they are nothing more than a bunch egoistic bastards who only care for themself.

Crossovers to fantasy destroy the "original" fluff of 40K, so I vetoe the "Space Dwarfs" (even though I`m playing dwarfs in WHFB).
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Old 19 Aug 2007, 00:14   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Want to bring back the squats/demiurg?

As that's squats, I don't really see the point in bringing them back. :-\
If they were demiurg, however… 8)
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Old 19 Aug 2007, 02:32   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Want to bring back the squats/demiurg?

OK lets start with the comaprisons.

Empire-Imp guard(i think, Maybe marines)
High elves-eldar
dark elves-dark eldar
orks-guess what they are
chaos-chaos
dwarves-squats

I am pretty sure that they did away with squats because they wanted to have a game mostly different from Fantasy. Who would play a game with all the same rules and just different models? Well as Games Workshop evolved and began to get rid of most of the Fantasy in 40k rules, the squats just kind of followed.

As far as the petition goes? I did not sign it. You must keep in mind, that even if you get enough signatures, the final decision is up to GW. Hard to guess what their actions will be :


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Old 19 Aug 2007, 02:54   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Want to bring back the squats/demiurg?

Meh, I for one won't support the bringing back of Squats, as a race they had little identity aside from being Space Dwarves. Where as Eldar and Chaos all moved away to have their own identity eventually.
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Old 19 Aug 2007, 03:01   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Want to bring back the squats/demiurg?

Quote:
This fantasy crossovers are just bad for the fluff. Examples?

Eldar. Everyone looks at them and says: "Oh, my! They`re elfs! Surely they must be selfless saviours of the universe, sacrificing their lives for the lesser beings!", when in reality, they are nothing more than a bunch egoistic T'auk'cka'era who only care for themself.

Crossovers to fantasy destroy the "original" fluff of 40K, so I vetoe the "Space Dwarfs" (even though I`m playing dwarfs in WHFB).
How is this example bad for fluff? It makes them far different from the High Elf's of WHFB and from Elf's of other games/storeys.

And besides, Eldar was the second race invented for 40K right after the Imperium. Their about as ""original" fluff of 40K" as you can get!
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Old 19 Aug 2007, 03:04   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Want to bring back the squats/demiurg?

I won't sign it because, as mentioned above, 40k shouldn't be Fantasized. IMHO, even Eldar is pushing it(though lose the ears and other "elf" references with them, and they'll be fine). Some cross-overs can't be helped, such as "poor" armies, "elite armies" "swarm" armies and the like. But when the models look like they've been 40k-ified: No.

Now, if you were willing to put on an amendment which said something long the lines of the following provisions, I would:

The models are not done after the Dwarves of 40k.
They may be miners.
They are fully-integrated in the 40k universe(ala they don't use steam tech, not meaning they are a part of everything. Didn't work with the Necrons, won't work now.)
And it would be a plus if they weren't totally human-looking. Surprise me...
And I think that should cover it.

Aun, I think he was talking about the fact that the Elves in Fantasy have been dying(and are indeed going to die soon IIRC, fluffwise), while more than 40.000+ years in the future, there they are, still alive.
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Old 19 Aug 2007, 03:16   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Want to bring back the squats/demiurg?

Not as their own race/codex, but perhaps as an expansion to the Tau empire, I'd listen. The Demiurg are on paper as dealing extensively with the Tau trading technology and whatnot, so I don't see why they couldn't be fielded as Mercenaries.

Heck, the Tau got their Ion technology from the Demiurg, so maybe there should be the option of fielding semi-elite Demiurg foot-soldiers with a floating ion-array weapons platform, using the same deployment rules as Kroot Mercs for who can take them?
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Old 19 Aug 2007, 03:20   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Want to bring back the squats/demiurg?

I like the Dwarf archetype for them, though, at least in how it relates to the human and Elf archetypes. Tau suffer because GW made them a somewhat minor power, explaining neatly why we hadn't heard about them before. But that made it easy for the Eldar and Imperial fanboys to take cracks at their relevance in the grand scheme of things.

But that doesn't fly with the Demiurg, who have been referenced for a while and have a good reason to be relatively unmarked up until now. I would like to see a race to complement the Eldar and the Imperium. As old as the others, but with a very different perspective on how the galaxy has developed recently. A race that has always tried to avoid getting involved, but is now being forced into open warfare for the first time in eons. They should be slow and methodical in order to complement the fast and dynamic Eldar. I don't think they should take any of the Nordic imagery that characterizes the Fantasy Dwarves and the Squats. But I like the way BFG compares them to the Bentusi from Homeworld (a little too closely, perhaps). And by bringing the Demiurg in as a major player around the fringes of populated space, we can also work in a better way for the Tau to start playing at the bigger tables.

And I do like the one concept sketch we have of them. Just avoiding beards would go a long way towards seperating them from fantasy dwarves.
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Old 19 Aug 2007, 03:31   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Want to bring back the squats/demiurg?

The squats would make a few good "radical" units (ie the same way as a daemon host prevents the use of grey knights, sisters of battle or space marines), Imagine a bunch of short angry bikers with a grudge against most Xenos and a death oath against the rest ;D.
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